From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Wed Jan 5 20:48:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j05Jmavr013602 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:48:36 +0100 (MET) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j05Jmaxq013601 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:48:36 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j05JmLvr013568; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:48:21 +0100 (MET) Received: from head.cfa.harvard.edu (head.cfa.harvard.edu [131.142.41.8]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j05JmIhA010981; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:48:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from xebec.cfa.harvard.edu (xebec [131.142.52.100]) by head.cfa.harvard.edu (d/w) with ESMTP id j05JmDKD009537; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:48:13 -0500 (EST) From: Arnold Rots Received: (from arots@localhost) by xebec.cfa.harvard.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) id j05JmCX9026705; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:48:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200501051948.j05JmCX9026705@xebec.cfa.harvard.edu> Subject: STC Version 1.10 To: dal@ivoa.net, dm@ivoa.net, dm-catalog@ivoa.net, registry@ivoa.net, voql@ivoa.net, votable@ivoa.net Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:48:12 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.1.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.1.5.17 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Arnold Rots X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 With apologies for the wide distribution - many of you will get multiple copies of this message. But STC does touch on many areas. STC Version 1.10 has been posted at ivoa.net. The Working Draft and the schemata have been modified following comments, mainly by Anita Richards and David Berry. The most important changes: Pixel Space specification Allow UNKNOWN for certain elements Allow ranges for Coordinate components other than Name and Value Provide for the specification of rest frequencies Improved generalization, inheritance, polymorphism Added AllSky to Region shapes In addition, I have compiled a document that describes the XML implementation. This really completes the first release. I consider this implementation a stable version and do not envision any drastic changes until Version 2.0. And I have created a project page at us-vo.org: http://us-vo.org/projects/project.cfm?ID=62 There will be a poster on STC V1.10 at the AAS special session, next week. Cheers, - Arnold -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold H. Rots Chandra X-ray Science Center Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel: +1 617 496 7701 60 Garden Street, MS 67 fax: +1 617 495 7356 Cambridge, MA 02138 arots@head.cfa.harvard.edu USA http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End of forwarded message from Arnold Rots ----- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold H. Rots Chandra X-ray Science Center Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel: +1 617 496 7701 60 Garden Street, MS 67 fax: +1 617 495 7356 Cambridge, MA 02138 arots@head.cfa.harvard.edu USA http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Fri Apr 1 22:43:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31KhMPI018856 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:43:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j31KhM4n018855 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:43:22 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31Kh6PI018832 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:43:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from earth.astro.umd.edu (earth.astro.umd.edu [129.2.14.2]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31Kh4pB021233 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:43:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bigstar.astro.umd.edu (bigstar.astro.umd.edu [129.2.15.48]) by earth.astro.umd.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858A9109C1; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:42:58 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Thomas To: Francois Bonnarel Subject: Use of Quantity, STC and Characterization within Catalog. (Was: Re: Characterization predraft in Postscript Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:43:23 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.7.1 Cc: edward.j.shaya.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Alberto.Micol@eso.org, arots@head.cfa.harvard.edu, bonnarel@newb6.u-strasbg.fr, chil@sn.sai.msu.ru, dtody@nrao.edu, jcm@head.cfa.harvard.edu, louys@newb6.u-strasbg.fr, dm-catalog@ivoa.net References: <200504011217.OAA21805@alinda.u-strasbg.fr> In-Reply-To: <200504011217.OAA21805@alinda.u-strasbg.fr> Organization: University of Maryland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504011543.23542.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.1.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.4.1.10 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Brian Thomas X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hi All, I'm cross-posting this to the characterization and catalog groups as this work overlaps both. In coordination with some of the others of you, Ed and I have been working on trying to do a serialization/datamodel for "Catalog" which utilizes existing VO datamodels (namely STC, Quantity and Characterization). The main problem in moving forward with the catalog work has been the overlapping (and conflicting) nature of the above VO datamodels. We have tried to resolve the most aggregious issues and create a simple source catalog. You can find our work (as document, schema and xml example) at the following address: http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalogTest For those of you who just want to read our proposal, unified model, please hop to: http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalogTest/docs/VOModel_merger.pdf Cheers, Brian (and Ed) On Friday 01 April 2005 07:17 am, Francois Bonnarel wrote: > Dear Brian, > > < If you like, I would be happy to post the schema and an example > < (catalog) which uses it all. > < > < cheers, > Yes please, do it > François > > ===================================================================== > Francois Bonnarel Observatoire Astronomique de Strasbourg > CDS (Centre de donnees 11, rue de l'Universite > astronomiques de Strasbourg) F--67000 Strasbourg (France) > > Tel: +33-(0)3 90 24 24 11 WWW: http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/people/fb.html > Fax: +33-(0)3 90 24 24 25 E-mail: bonnarel@astro.u-strasbg.fr > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- -------------------------------------- | | Dr. Brian Thomas | | Dept of Astronomy | University of Maryland-College Park | | Phone: (301) 405-2312 | Fax: (301) 314-9067 | -------------------------------------- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Fri Apr 1 23:35:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31LZTUT024144 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 23:35:29 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j31LZTFc024143 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 23:35:29 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31LZPUT024134 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 23:35:25 +0200 (MEST) Received: from earth.astro.umd.edu (earth.astro.umd.edu [129.2.14.2]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j31LZNkW014973 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 23:35:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bigstar.astro.umd.edu (bigstar.astro.umd.edu [129.2.15.48]) by earth.astro.umd.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FA5109C1; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 16:35:17 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Thomas To: Francois Bonnarel Subject: Re: Use of Quantity, STC and Characterization within Catalog. (Was: Re: Characterization predraft in Postscript Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 16:35:42 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.7.1 Cc: edward.j.shaya.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Alberto.Micol@eso.org, arots@head.cfa.harvard.edu, bonnarel@newb6.u-strasbg.fr, chil@sn.sai.msu.ru, dtody@nrao.edu, jcm@head.cfa.harvard.edu, louys@newb6.u-strasbg.fr, dm-catalog@ivoa.net References: <200504011217.OAA21805@alinda.u-strasbg.fr> <200504011543.23542.thomas@astro.umd.edu> In-Reply-To: <200504011543.23542.thomas@astro.umd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200504011635.42912.brian.thomas@gsfc.nasa.gov> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.4.1.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Brian Thomas X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Oops. Sorry, I screwed up the document URL, the *working* one is: http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalogTest/docs/VOmodel_merger.pdf =b.t. On Friday 01 April 2005 03:43 pm, Brian Thomas wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm cross-posting this to the characterization and catalog groups as this > work overlaps both. > > In coordination with some of the others of you, Ed and I have been working > on trying to do a serialization/datamodel for "Catalog" which utilizes > existing VO datamodels (namely STC, Quantity and Characterization). > > The main problem in moving forward with the catalog work has been the > overlapping (and conflicting) nature of the above VO datamodels. We have tried > to resolve the most aggregious issues and create a simple source catalog. > > You can find our work (as document, schema and xml example) at the > following address: > > http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalogTest > > For those of you who just want to read our proposal, unified model, please > hop to: > > http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalogTest/docs/VOModel_merger.pdf > > Cheers, > > Brian (and Ed) > > > On Friday 01 April 2005 07:17 am, Francois Bonnarel wrote: > > Dear Brian, > > > > < If you like, I would be happy to post the schema and an example > > < (catalog) which uses it all. > > < > > < cheers, > > Yes please, do it > > François > > > > ===================================================================== > > Francois Bonnarel Observatoire Astronomique de Strasbourg > > CDS (Centre de donnees 11, rue de l'Universite > > astronomiques de Strasbourg) F--67000 Strasbourg (France) > > > > Tel: +33-(0)3 90 24 24 11 WWW: http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/people/fb.html > > Fax: +33-(0)3 90 24 24 25 E-mail: bonnarel@astro.u-strasbg.fr > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- -------------------------------------- | | Dr. Brian Thomas | | Dept of Astronomy | University of Maryland-College Park | | Phone: (301) 405-2312 | Fax: (301) 314-9067 | -------------------------------------- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Mon Apr 4 11:51:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j349pI3n006040 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:51:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j349pIfl006039 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:51:18 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j349p83n006024 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:51:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.22]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j349p6pB013995 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:51:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (relay [172.24.21.38]) by esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IEF005K120VV3@esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net> for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:50:55 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) by esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701E2219E4F; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:50:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14688-08; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:50:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE008219E4C; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:50:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iso.vilspa.esa.es (isous5.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.153.100]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD71E11F703; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:50:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from isol03.vilspa.esa.int (isol03.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.153.17]) by iso.vilspa.esa.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j349ornl019840; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:50:53 +0200 (MEST) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:50:53 +0200 From: Pedro Osuna Subject: Re: Use of Quantity, STC and Characterization within Catalog. (Was: Re: Characterization predraft in Postscript In-reply-to: <200504011543.23542.thomas@astro.umd.edu> To: Brian Thomas Cc: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int, Francois Bonnarel , Ed Shaya , Alberto Micol , arots@head.cfa.harvard.edu, bonnarel@newb6.u-strasbg.fr, chil@sn.sai.msu.ru, Doug Tody , Jonathan McDowell , louys@newb6.u-strasbg.fr, dm-catalog@ivoa.net Message-id: <1112608253.3890.10096.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-9) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-1.2 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.1 AWL AWL: Auto-whitelist adjustment References: <200504011217.OAA21805@alinda.u-strasbg.fr> <200504011543.23542.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.1.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.4.4.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Pedro Osuna X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Dear Brian, thank you for circulating your work on a possible Catalogue DM. As you know, the Catalogue Data Model subgroup presented a draft proposal to approach the Catalogue Data Model, which I discussed with you -and others- during the ADASS at Pasadena. Your proposal matches quite well that one, and I think it would be interesting to have it uploaded to the Catalogue Data Model pages. I think Kyoto would be the right place to discuss about the merging of the different proposals. I will ask Jonathan to book some time for this in the DM general group. On our side -am now talking as ESA VO, not Catalogue DM chair- we are preparing a Data Model for Sources. We will circulate it soon. Please let me know if you're OK with uploading the info to the Catalogue pages or you want me to do it. Thank you. Cheers, P. On Fri, 2005-04-01 at 22:43, Brian Thomas wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm cross-posting this to the characterization and catalog groups as this > work overlaps both. > > In coordination with some of the others of you, Ed and I have been working > on trying to do a serialization/datamodel for "Catalog" which utilizes > existing VO datamodels (namely STC, Quantity and Characterization). > > The main problem in moving forward with the catalog work has been the > overlapping (and conflicting) nature of the above VO datamodels. We have tried > to resolve the most aggregious issues and create a simple source catalog. > > You can find our work (as document, schema and xml example) at the > following address: > > http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalogTest > > For those of you who just want to read our proposal, unified model, please > hop to: > > http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalogTest/docs/VOModel_merger.pdf > > Cheers, > > Brian (and Ed) > > > On Friday 01 April 2005 07:17 am, Francois Bonnarel wrote: > > Dear Brian, > > > > < If you like, I would be happy to post the schema and an example > > < (catalog) which uses it all. > > < > > < cheers, > > Yes please, do it > > François > > > > ===================================================================== > > Francois Bonnarel Observatoire Astronomique de Strasbourg > > CDS (Centre de donnees 11, rue de l'Universite > > astronomiques de Strasbourg) F--67000 Strasbourg (France) > > > > Tel: +33-(0)3 90 24 24 11 WWW: http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/people/fb.html > > Fax: +33-(0)3 90 24 24 25 E-mail: bonnarel@astro.u-strasbg.fr > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- Pedro Osuna Alcalaya Software Engineer Science Archive Team European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC/ESA) e-mail: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Tel + 34 91 8131314 --------------------------------- European Space Astronomy Centre European Space Agency P.O. Box 50727 E-28080 Villafranca del Castillo MADRID - SPAIN From owner-dm@eso.org Wed Apr 27 16:33:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3REX8l1021828 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:33:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j3REX84C021825 for dm-outgoing; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:33:08 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3REX4l1021810; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:33:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.23]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3REX273018080; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:33:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (relay2 [172.24.21.39]) by esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IFM00KNS0EQ52@esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net>; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:32:50 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) by esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47BD0219E70; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:32:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20919-03; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:32:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE7B219E43; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:32:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iso.vilspa.esa.es (isous5.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.153.100]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id B957311F8F0; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:32:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from isol03.vilspa.esa.int (isol03.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.153.17]) by iso.vilspa.esa.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3REWi6A018184; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:32:44 +0200 (MEST) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:32:44 +0200 From: Pedro Osuna Subject: [CATALOGUE] Source Catalogue DM To: dm@ivoa.net, dm-catalog@ivoa.net Cc: Jesus.Salgado@sciops.esa.int, Christophe.Arviset@esa.int, Pedro.Osuna@sciops.esa.int Message-id: <1114612363.29103.20880.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-9) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_8tElyy3DfG5NMGKyg638uQ)" X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-1.2 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.1 AWL AWL: Auto-whitelist adjustment X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.1, Antispam-Data: 2005.4.27.5 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Pedro Osuna X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 --Boundary_(ID_8tElyy3DfG5NMGKyg638uQ) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear all, Matteo Guainazzi (ESA-VO and XMM-Newton Archive Scientist) has compiled information on several source catalogues on different wavelengths and together with Jesus Salgado an myself we have compiled a tentative Source Catalogue Data Model, that would plug in the general Catalogue Data Model that we discussed back in Pune. We attach a UML diagram of the model to serve as a starting point for discussion. You will see in the model that certain of the Source specific characteristics that Matteo has identified correspond to other Data Models that are being worked by other sub-groups. With my Catalogue DM coordinator's hat, could I ask Jonathan (for the SED) and Alberto (for the Observation/Characterisation) to cross check which of the relevant items boxed in the diagram correspond to items in their respective models? And in case they are not there, would it be possible to add them? A small description -by Matteo- of each of the physical attributes in the model follows together with a description by Jesus and myself on the model itself. The attributes' types in the model have been put for reference and should not be taken as definitive. Please do have a look to the Model and send your comments; this is the only way to have flexible and powerful Data Models fulfilling all the needs. Feel free to send comments to the whole Catalogue dm group (dm-catalog@ivoa.net) or, in case you send them to the general DM group , do it with a subject containing the word [CATALOGUE] so that the rest of DM-ers can filter properly. Cheers, P. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ UML diagram =========== Objects: ------- Source ------ We have decided to have a quite general and big-ish object called Source with as much information as possible inside. Smaller or finer grain could have been obtained by separating the attributes on the Source object to smaller objects. However, in view of the fact that the source is just but one item in the possible "Catalogue entries", we thought that there are already too many subdivisions, and hence decided to build only one. Certain attributes of the Source object will, obviously, only apply to some sources (a clear example being, e.g., the visualAlbedo). The idea of the "id" is to leave a place for specific IDs for specific projects. The standard naming for the sources should be filled in (if known) on the SIMBADName and IAUName. Wherever STC appears, it makes reference to certain item in the Space Time Coordinate Data Model from Arnold. Orbit is obviously only related to objects following an orbit, like binary systems. In this case, a specific object has been isolated as it might become quite big if we decide to add more specific attributes to the orbits of the objects (some of which are very well known). In this case, we have doubted whether any effort exists in the Data Model groups to describe orbits in general (Jonathan: would it need to be considered separately?). Morphology ---------- Morphology has been separated to account for possible extended source information. In the case that a Source is identified to be of a certain type (for example, a Galaxy) this Galaxy model should extend the Morphology and add more specific attributes to it (in the case of a Galaxy, for example, whtehr the galaxy is Sprial SB, or Sa, elliptical, irregular, etc.). Orbit ----- We have decided, as mentioned above, to isolate this item as it might grow easily if we decide to give very specific information for orbits, some of which might be very well known. For the time being, we give only a reduced set of attributes. STC --- Relevant items to the Source model are specified there. Arnold should revise their validity. SED --- Jonathan should revise which of the items inside this box are present in the SED, and in case they are not, decide if they can be created. Otherwise, we might want to create an isolated object for this. Observation ----------- Alberto should revise this bit and give information (as above). AGN --- This is not an object as such. It is a place holder for any possbile AstronomicalObjects that we might want to describe in the future. We agreed in the past that in many catalogues, the type of source is either unknown or irrelevant, therefore not neededing an identification. However, other catalogues will consist, e.g., of only galaxies, for example. In this case, a Galaxy model should exist to which we could point the "type" attribute of "Source". This AGN object represents one of those future objects. Physical Description of attributes ================================== - "id": Name of the source - "IAUName": IAU name of the source - "SIMDABName": SIMBAD name of the identified counterpart - "type": Source class. It may reflect a standard object classification as in e.g.: http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/guide/chF.htx - "coordinates": The sky coordinates of the source - "frequency": The frequency, at which the flux/magnitude/count ("flux" hereafter) measurements in the catalogue were taken - "snr": Source significance in terms of signal-to-noise ratio - "detectionProbability": Source detection probability - "distance": Distance of the source from "distanceOrigin". The cosmological redshift is a possible instantiation of this attribute - "distanceDeterminationMethod": Method employed to determine "distance". "Spectra", "Photometric", "Parallax" are possible values of this attribute - "distanceOrigin": Origin from which "distance" is being measured - "properMotion": the source proper motion on the sky vault - "radialVelocity": the radial component of the source velocity - "varAmplitude": the amplitude of the "varType" amplitude variability. It can be expressed either in physical absolute, r.m.s, or in fractional units - "varPeriod": the type of source variability: "Periodic", "Quasi-periodic", "Burst of Type I", "Aperiodic" are possible values of this attribute - "polarisatinDegree": degree of source polarization - "polarisationAngle": positional angle of the source polarization - "visualAlbedo": source visual albedo - "minorDiameter": size of the minor diameter of the source - "majorDiameter': size of the major diameter of the source - "inclination": angle between the line-of-sight to the source and the normal of the main source symmetry plane - "positionAngle": apparent position angle of the source on the sky vault - "stellarityIndex": parameter ranging from 0 (galaxy) to 1 (star), related to the probability that a given object is extended or point-like - "form": string describing the geometrical shape and/or symmetry of the source. "Boxy", "Patchy", "Ring", are possible values for this attribute - "perihelion": minimum distance from a reference point along the orbit - "perihelionTime": time of the source passing through the orbit perihelion - "afelion": maximum distance from a reference point along the orbit - "inclination": angle between the line-of-sight to the source and the normal to the plane containing the orbit - "eccentricity": fraction of the distance along the semi-major axis at which the focus lies (e=c/a, where c is the distance from the center of the conic section to the focus and a is the semi-major axis) - "positionAngle": apparent position angle of the orbit on the sky vault - "period": orbital period -- Pedro Osuna Alcalaya Software Engineer Science Archive Team European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC/ESA) e-mail: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Tel + 34 91 8131314 --------------------------------- European Space Astronomy Centre European Space Agency P.O. 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IGYNCjAwMDAwNDc5MTAgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAwMDA0Nzk0MCAwMDAwMCBuDQowMDAwMDQ3OTgyIDAw MDAwIG4NCjAwMDAwNDgwNDYgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAwMDA0ODI3MyAwMDAwMCBuDQp0cmFpbGVyDTw8 DS9TaXplIDYNL0lEWzxlOGExMzEzMDllOGUxNTMxMDVhMTQ1YTJhMTUxOTJjYT48YjQxOWU4ZDQ3 OTI3MDA5ZTcyODA0ZGRkMGMzODZiZTM+XQ0+Pg1zdGFydHhyZWYNMTczDSUlRU9GDX== --Boundary_(ID_8tElyy3DfG5NMGKyg638uQ)-- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Apr 28 19:59:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SHxFox013483 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:59:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j3SHxFmB013482 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:59:15 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SHxBox013477 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:59:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from santo.ucolick.org (santo.ucolick.org [128.114.23.204]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SHx8XW028104 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:59:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (geneva.ucolick.org [128.114.23.183]) by santo.ucolick.org (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3SHw7t09773 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geneva.ucolick.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SHw7gJ018841 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:58:07 -0700 Received: (from sla@localhost) by geneva.ucolick.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j3SHw7V4018839 for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:58:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:58:07 -0700 From: Steve Allen To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: Re: [CATALOGUE] Source Catalogue DM Message-ID: <20050428175807.GA18807@ucolick.org> References: <1114612363.29103.20880.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1114612363.29103.20880.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Virus: Clean X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.1, Antispam-Data: 2005.4.27.26 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Steve Allen X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 On Wed 2005-04-27T16:32:44 +0200, Pedro Osuna hath writ: > - "polarisatinDegree": degree of source polarization > > - "polarisationAngle": positional angle of the source polarization The solar and radio observer in me asks why this omits an indication of the circular polarization. > - "positionAngle": apparent position angle of the source on the sky > vault > - "positionAngle": apparent position angle of the orbit on the sky vault All of the "Angle" quantities require a reference to some kind of celestial reference frame of the sort found in STC. It is not clear to me how that relationship can be enforced in the current schema. -- Steve Allen UCO/Lick Observatory Santa Cruz, CA 95064 sla@ucolick.org Voice: +1 831 459 3046 http://www.ucolick.org/~sla PGP: 1024/E46978C5 F6 78 D1 10 62 94 8F 2E 49 89 0E FE 26 B4 14 93 From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Apr 28 20:22:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SILpox017705 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:21:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j3SILpth017704 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:21:51 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SILlox017698; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:21:47 +0200 (MEST) Received: from head.cfa.harvard.edu (head.cfa.harvard.edu [131.142.41.8]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3SILjXW028901; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:21:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xebec.cfa.harvard.edu (xebec [131.142.52.100]) by head.cfa.harvard.edu (d/w) with ESMTP id j3SILJXp014017; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:21:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Arnold Rots Received: (from arots@localhost) by xebec.cfa.harvard.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) id j3SILG0K012222; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200504281821.j3SILG0K012222@xebec.cfa.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: [CATALOGUE] Source Catalogue DM In-Reply-To: <1114612363.29103.20880.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> To: Pedro Osuna Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:21:16 -0400 (EDT) CC: dm@ivoa.net, dm-catalog@ivoa.net, Jesus.Salgado@sciops.esa.int, Christophe.Arviset@esa.int X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.1, Antispam-Data: 2005.4.28.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Arnold Rots X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Pedro, I append the mapping to the STC schema, with some additional comments. I'll be happy to answer questions. Hope it elucidates things. Cheers, - Arnold -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold H. Rots Chandra X-ray Science Center Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel: +1 617 496 7701 60 Garden Street, MS 67 fax: +1 617 495 7356 Cambridge, MA 02138 arots@head.cfa.harvard.edu USA http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Catalog - STC Mapping ---------------------------- Following is a mapping of all elements from Pedro and Matteo's list that are present in stc:CatalogEntryLocation. Some preliminaries: stc:CatalogEntryLocation was designed with the following implementation in mind: The actual catalog data are presented as cells of a VOTable; the stc:CatalogEntryLocation element is present in the table header and its leafs, rather than containing actual data, are IDREFs that point to the Field that describes the column in the table, holding the actual data. However, there are clearly other ways of implementing things. The element can hold multiple coordinate systems to allow, for instance, combining equatorial and Galactic coordinates in one table; each AstroCoords element refers to a particualr AstroCoordsSystem through an IDREF attribute. If distance is to be added, one may want to specify a 3-D Spherical coordinate system with unit "deg deg Mpc", or so. The spatial coordinate then becomes a vector of length 3, containing RA, Dec, and distance (or whatever spatial frame is selected). It does allow multiple reference frames (e.g., equatorial and Galactic). I am assuming that the reference position for all spatial coordinates (including distance) is the same and most likely the barycenter - though the reference position for redshift may be different. Alternatively, one may want to put distance in an element with different reference frame, like Galactic coordinates. Proper motions are spatial velocities. However, Doppler velocities fall in the Redshift category. The redshift frame in the AstroCoordSystem specifies whether it is z or Doppler velocity, the velocity definition used (optical, radio), and the reference origin (geocenter, barycenter, galactic center, LSR, etc.). I would encourage you to add errors and I have included them in the mapping. Finally, if you use a single STC element to reference all catalog entries you may want to consider adding an AstroCoordArea element that descibes the volume in coordinate space covered by your catalog; I added those mappings, too. Mapping to stc:CatalogEntryLocation (not showing attributes) coordinates (say, RA & Dec) CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Position2D/Value2 errors on coordinates (say, an error circle) CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Position2D/Error2Radius distance CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Position1D/Value error on distance CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Position1D/Error proper motion (in RA and Dec) CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Velocity2D/Value2 errors on proper motion CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Velocity2D/Error2 frequency CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Spectral/Value Doppler velocity CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Redshift/Value error on Doppler velocity CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Redshift/Error time of observation CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Time/TimeInstant/ISOTime or: CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Time/TimeInstant/JDTime major and minor axis CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Position2D/Size2PA/Size position angle CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoords/Position2D/Size2PA/PosAngle catalog coverage: CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoordArea/TimeInterval CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoordArea/Region CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoordArea/VelInterval CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoordArea/SpectralInterval CatalogEntryLocation/AstroCoordArea/RedshiftInterval From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Jun 2 14:28:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52CSAH8000165 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:28:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j52CSAPM000164 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:28:10 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from serapis.hq.eso.org (serapis.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.10]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52CRxH8000132; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:27:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: from eso.org (st14.hq.eso.org [134.171.10.25]) by serapis.hq.eso.org (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j52CRwE24114; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:27:58 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <429EFB4E.8030907@eso.org> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:27:58 +0200 From: Alberto Micol Organization: ST-ECF User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20040414 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pedro Osuna CC: dm@ivoa.net, dm-catalog@ivoa.net, Jesus.Salgado@sciops.esa.int, Christophe.Arviset@esa.int Subject: Re: [CATALOGUE] Source Catalogue DM References: <1114612363.29103.20880.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> In-Reply-To: <1114612363.29103.20880.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alberto Micol X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Dear Pedro and Matteo, I finally manage to provide the requested feedback on the Observation/Characterisation part of the Catalog/Source DM you are proposing. [Note: in the following I will type "charac" for "characterisation".] In the first place I'd like to highlight the fact that "Catalogue Charac." and "Source Charac" are quite different beasts, in that the Catalogue charac is probably going to be a some kind of summary of the characs of all the sources in the catalogue. In the following I take care only of the Source relevant aspects, related to charac and observation, which are: - Source.coordinates - Source.frequency (and bandpass?) - Source.snr & localBackgroundNoise - Source.observation - Calibration accuracy - Publications Coordinates and frequency: The coordinates are described using STC which cover Temporal, Spatial and Spectral axes. Hence, I see the Source.frequency as a redundant field; a field that is there for convenience. If that is true, then I'd suggest also to add a reference time; or otherwise remove frequency. (I like too much symmetry: or we put convenient fields for each axis, or I'd prefer no redundant fields at all). BTW, I assume frequency is the rest frame frequency, is it? Bandpass: On the other hand, what might be missing is the bandpass name and its characteristics. The fact that under Observation there is a field called Filter is not enough. It could be that some transformation is applied to the extracted source, and that the published flux in the catalog is no longer characterised by the filter name of the original observation. Maybe we should dust off the work done by Jonathan on the bandpass DM (?) Back to STC (or Charac [see last comment at the end of this email]): When saying STC that implies many things which are not explicited in your model. And in particular I'm concentrating on the charac aspects like Resolution and Sampling. I find particularly relevant to know whether the morphological parameters of the source were extracted from an undersampled or oversampled image, or otherwise from a low or high resolution spectrum. Maybe that should go in the Observation box... Observation: Spectroscopy? The Observation diargam is probably biased towards imaging. Spectroscopy is to be added there. Things like slit sizes, position and orientation (maybe in your view accumunated under fieldOfView and positionAngle, or maybe Aperture?), dispersive elements could be added. Calibration accuracy: I see things like vignettingCorrection, but there are many other corrections one could put in (from flatfielding to geometric distorsion corrections). I would claim that the source is probably extracted from a well-calibrated product, where all such corrections have been performed. Hence, I would remove the vignettingCorrection and put in a more generic Calibration Status, as it is done in the SSAP (Paragraph 3.3.5.2), e.g. Accuracy.Spatial.Calibrated, Accuracy.Spatial.SysErr, etc. I would also get rid of the gain. To be added: the Error on the ZeroPoint. Source.snr and localBackgroundNoise: I see that part of the SourceDM, but I also see a localBackgroundNoise under Observation. That confuses me. Could you please clarify what you mean by localBackgroundNoise? In my view that belongs to the Source, not to the Observation. Finally: Publications. Well, maybe not. It all depends if Source means extracted source, or if Source means Object (as discussed in Kyoto). In the latter case I would then add the bibcode(s) of the publications from which certain quantities were derived. An overall remark: Should SourceDM point to STC or to CharacDM which uses STC (and should also contemplate Accuracy)? I would be in favour of the second approach to be inline with SSAP and later with SIAP. And that would save you lot of work since you can probably copy-and-paste that part into your Catalogue DM. I think this is enough for a first pass. Sorry that it came so late! Alberto Pedro Osuna wrote: >Dear all, > >Matteo Guainazzi (ESA-VO and XMM-Newton Archive Scientist) has compiled >information on several source catalogues on different wavelengths and >together with Jesus Salgado an myself we have compiled a tentative >Source Catalogue Data Model, that would plug in the general Catalogue >Data Model that we discussed back in Pune. > >We attach a UML diagram of the model to serve as a starting point for >discussion. > >You will see in the model that certain of the Source specific >characteristics that Matteo has identified correspond to other Data >Models that are being worked by other sub-groups. > >With my Catalogue DM coordinator's hat, could I ask Jonathan (for the >SED) and Alberto (for the Observation/Characterisation) to cross check >which of the relevant items boxed in the diagram correspond to items in >their respective models? And in case they are not there, would it be >possible to add them? > >A small description -by Matteo- of each of the physical attributes >in the model follows together with a description by Jesus and myself >on the model itself. >The attributes' types in the model have been put for reference and >should not be taken as definitive. > >Please do have a look to the Model and send your comments; this is the >only way to have flexible and powerful Data Models fulfilling all the >needs. > >Feel free to send comments to the whole Catalogue dm group >(dm-catalog@ivoa.net) or, in case you send them to the general DM group >, do it with a subject containing the word [CATALOGUE] so that the rest >of DM-ers can filter properly. > > >Cheers, >P. > > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >UML diagram >=========== >Objects: >------- >Source >------ >We have decided to have a quite general and big-ish object called Source >with as much information as possible inside. Smaller or finer grain >could have been obtained by separating the attributes on the Source >object to smaller objects. However, in view of the fact that the source >is just but one item in the possible "Catalogue entries", we thought >that there are already too many subdivisions, and hence decided to build >only one. > >Certain attributes of the Source object will, obviously, only apply to >some sources (a clear example being, e.g., the visualAlbedo). > >The idea of the "id" is to leave a place for specific IDs for specific >projects. The standard naming for the sources should be filled in (if >known) on the SIMBADName and IAUName. > >Wherever STC appears, it makes reference to certain item in the Space >Time Coordinate Data Model from Arnold. > >Orbit is obviously only related to objects following an orbit, like >binary systems. In this case, a specific object has been isolated as it >might become quite big if we decide to add more specific attributes to >the orbits of the objects (some of which are very well known). In this >case, we have doubted whether any effort exists in the Data Model groups >to describe orbits in general (Jonathan: would it need to be considered >separately?). > > >Morphology >---------- >Morphology has been separated to account for possible extended source >information. In the case that a Source is identified to be of a certain >type (for example, a Galaxy) this Galaxy model should extend the >Morphology and add more specific attributes to it (in the case of a >Galaxy, for example, whtehr the galaxy is Sprial SB, or Sa, elliptical, >irregular, etc.). > >Orbit >----- >We have decided, as mentioned above, to isolate this item as it might >grow easily if we decide to give very specific information for orbits, >some of which might be very well known. For the time being, we give only >a reduced set of attributes. > > >STC >--- >Relevant items to the Source model are specified there. Arnold should >revise their validity. > >SED >--- >Jonathan should revise which of the items inside this box are present in >the SED, and in case they are not, decide if they can be created. >Otherwise, we might want to create an isolated object for this. > >Observation >----------- >Alberto should revise this bit and give information (as above). > > >AGN >--- >This is not an object as such. It is a place holder for any possbile >AstronomicalObjects that we might want to describe in the future. We >agreed in the past that in many catalogues, the type of source is either >unknown or irrelevant, therefore not neededing an identification. >However, other catalogues will consist, e.g., of only galaxies, for >example. In this case, a Galaxy model should exist to which we could >point the "type" attribute of "Source". This AGN object represents one >of those future objects. > > >Physical Description of attributes >================================== > >- "id": Name of the source > >- "IAUName": IAU name of the source > >- "SIMDABName": SIMBAD name of the identified counterpart > >- "type": Source class. It may reflect a standard object > classification as in e.g.: http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/guide/chF.htx > >- "coordinates": The sky coordinates of the source > >- "frequency": The frequency, at which the flux/magnitude/count ("flux" > hereafter) measurements in the catalogue were taken > >- "snr": Source significance in terms of signal-to-noise ratio > >- "detectionProbability": Source detection probability > >- "distance": Distance of the source from "distanceOrigin". The >cosmological redshift is a possible instantiation of this attribute > >- "distanceDeterminationMethod": Method employed to determine >"distance". "Spectra", "Photometric", "Parallax" are possible values of >this attribute > >- "distanceOrigin": Origin from which "distance" is being measured > >- "properMotion": the source proper motion on the sky vault > >- "radialVelocity": the radial component of the source velocity > >- "varAmplitude": the amplitude of the "varType" amplitude variability. >It can be expressed either in physical absolute, r.m.s, or in fractional >units > >- "varPeriod": the type of source variability: "Periodic", >"Quasi-periodic", "Burst of Type I", "Aperiodic" are possible values of >this attribute > >- "polarisatinDegree": degree of source polarization > >- "polarisationAngle": positional angle of the source polarization > >- "visualAlbedo": source visual albedo > >- "minorDiameter": size of the minor diameter of the source > >- "majorDiameter': size of the major diameter of the source > >- "inclination": angle between the line-of-sight to the source and the > normal of the main source symmetry plane > >- "positionAngle": apparent position angle of the source on the sky >vault > >- "stellarityIndex": parameter ranging from 0 (galaxy) to 1 (star), >related to the probability that a given object is extended or point-like > >- "form": string describing the geometrical shape and/or symmetry of the > source. "Boxy", "Patchy", "Ring", are possible values for this >attribute > >- "perihelion": minimum distance from a reference point along the orbit > >- "perihelionTime": time of the source passing through the orbit >perihelion > >- "afelion": maximum distance from a reference point along the orbit > >- "inclination": angle between the line-of-sight to the source and the > normal to the plane containing the orbit > >- "eccentricity": fraction of the distance along the semi-major axis at >which the focus lies (e=c/a, where c is the distance from the center of >the conic section to the focus and a is the semi-major axis) > >- "positionAngle": apparent position angle of the orbit on the sky vault > >- "period": orbital period > > > > > -- Alberto.Micol@eso.org Tel: +49 89 32006365 HST Archive Scientist ST-ECF Fax: +49 89 32006480 ESA/RSSD/SN c/o ESO Karl Schwarzschild Str.2, http://archive.eso.org/ Garching bei Muenchen, http://www.stecf.org/ D-85748 Germany From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Jun 2 16:40:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52EcjH8027019 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:38:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j52EcjJI027018 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:38:45 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from serapis.hq.eso.org (serapis.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.10]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52EcgH8027009 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:38:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [134.171.30.4] (nb008487.ads.eso.org [134.171.30.4]) by serapis.hq.eso.org (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j52EcfE29215 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:38:41 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <429F1A07.6080205@eso.org> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:39:03 +0200 From: "Marco C. Leoni" Organization: European Virtual Observatory @ESO User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: Re: [CATALOGUE] Source Catalogue DM References: <1114612363.29103.20880.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> <429EFB4E.8030907@eso.org> In-Reply-To: <429EFB4E.8030907@eso.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060704030600000104080902" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060704030600000104080902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It would be very nice to stop the cross-posting. It's almost always rather annoying than useful:like in this case. - Most of the people registered to "dm-catalog" is already on "dm". - The subject says "[CATALOGUE]", thus why bother all the other? [- If it's really needed, please do it with a separate email] In case sending to "sub-list" always requires CC "list", the only option is to remove the sub-list. Thanks a lot, Marco --------------060704030600000104080902 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It would be very nice to stop the cross-posting.

It's almost always rather annoying than useful:like in this case.
    - Most of the people registered to "dm-catalog" is already on "dm".
    - The subject says "[CATALOGUE]", thus why bother all the other?
    [- If it's really needed, please do it with a separate email]

In case sending to "sub-list" always requires CC "list", the only option is to remove the sub-list.


Thanks a lot,
    Marco --------------060704030600000104080902-- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Jun 2 16:57:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52EvCH8001949 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:57:13 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j52EvC65001946 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:57:12 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52Ev8H8001933 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:57:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.22]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52Ev6XW009339 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:57:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (relay [172.24.21.38]) by esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHG00GGDPIXCT@esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net> for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:56:57 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89631229DA9; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:57:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18197-07; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:56:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E9F229DB2; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:56:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iso.vilspa.esa.es (isous5.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.153.100]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF85811F703; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:56:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from isol03.vilspa.esa.int (isol03.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.153.17]) by iso.vilspa.esa.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52EuwTu021132; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:56:58 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:56:58 +0200 From: Pedro Osuna Subject: Re: [CATALOGUE] Source Catalogue DM In-reply-to: <429F1A07.6080205@eso.org> To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Cc: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Message-id: <1117724218.5721.810.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-14) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-0.6 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) 0.6 J_CHICKENPOX_64 BODY: 6alpha-pock-4alpha -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] References: <1114612363.29103.20880.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> <429EFB4E.8030907@eso.org> <429F1A07.6080205@eso.org> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.1, Antispam-Data: 2005.6.2.12 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Yes, I do agree. Please send dm-catalog related things to dm-catalog only. Cheers, P. On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 16:39, Marco C. Leoni wrote: > It would be very nice to stop the cross-posting. > > It's almost always rather annoying than useful:like in this case. > - Most of the people registered to "dm-catalog" is already on > "dm". > - The subject says "[CATALOGUE]", thus why bother all the other? > [- If it's really needed, please do it with a separate email] > > In case sending to "sub-list" always requires CC "list", the only > option is to remove the sub-list. > > > Thanks a lot, > Marco -- Pedro Osuna Alcalaya ESA Science Archives System Engineer Science Archive Team European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC/ESA) e-mail: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Tel + 34 91 8131314 --------------------------------- European Space Astronomy Centre European Space Agency P.O. Box 50727 E-28080 Villafranca del Castillo MADRID - SPAIN From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Jun 16 17:23:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GFN7Ur013582 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:23:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j5GFN7rL013581 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:23:07 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GFN1Ur013567 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:23:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: from curlew.cs.man.ac.uk (curlew.cs.man.ac.uk [130.88.13.7]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GFMx73020648 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:23:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from star1.jb.man.ac.uk ([130.88.24.176]) by curlew.cs.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43 (FreeBSD)) id 1DiwCk-000ASi-Hu for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:22:54 +0100 Received: from [130.88.24.181] (helo=hecate) by star1.jb.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 1DiwCk-0002mS-00 for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:22:54 +0100 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:22:54 +0100 (BST) From: Anita Richards X-X-Sender: amsr@localhost.localdomain To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: re Source Catalogue DM Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-UoM: Scanned by the University Mail System. See http://www.mcc.ac.uk/cos/email/scanning for details. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.1, Antispam-Data: 2005.6.16.14 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Minor quibble in case it is propagated in a schema "afelion" is incorrect, even as a simpified spelling of aphelion since ap-helion is ap + helion and never pronounced afelion I am sure we all know that but XML doesn't cheers a - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Anita M. S. Richards, AstroGrid Astronomer MERLIN/VLBI National Facility, University of Manchester, Jodrell Bank Observatory, Macclesfield, Cheshire SK11 9DL, U.K. tel +44 (0)1477 572683 (direct); 571321 (switchboard); 571618 (fax). From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Jun 16 17:28:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GFSgUr015049 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:28:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j5GFSghW015048 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:28:42 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GFSZUr015030 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:28:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from mailhost2.gsfc.nasa.gov (mailhost.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.244.130]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GFSW73020874 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:28:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from rings.gsfc.nasa.gov (rings.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.190.139]) by mailhost2.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5GFSL5w007039; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:28:26 -0400 Received: from rings.gsfc.nasa.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rings.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id j5GFSMtn010258; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from borne@localhost) by rings.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.2/Submit) id j5GFSMfd010256; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:28:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirk Borne Message-Id: <200506161528.j5GFSMfd010256@rings.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: re Source Catalogue DM To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Cc: kborne@gmu.edu (Kirk Borne (at George Mason University)) In-Reply-To: from "Anita Richards" at Jun 16, 2005 04:22:54 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.1, Antispam-Data: 2005.6.16.15 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Good catch Anita! - Kirk > From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Jun 16 11:24:50 2005 > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:22:54 +0100 (BST) > From: Anita Richards > X-X-Sender: amsr@localhost.localdomain > To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net > Subject: re Source Catalogue DM > > > Minor quibble in case it is propagated in a schema > > "afelion" > > is incorrect, even as a simpified spelling of aphelion since ap-helion is ap + > helion and never pronounced afelion > > I am sure we all know that but XML doesn't > > cheers > a > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Anita M. S. > Richards, AstroGrid Astronomer > MERLIN/VLBI National Facility, University of Manchester, Jodrell Bank > Observatory, Macclesfield, Cheshire SK11 9DL, U.K. tel +44 (0)1477 572683 > (direct); 571321 (switchboard); 571618 (fax). From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Sep 15 13:48:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FBk14P003258 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:46:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8FBk1T2003257 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:46:01 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FBju4P003230 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:45:57 +0200 (MEST) Received: from gannet.scg.man.ac.uk (gannet.scg.man.ac.uk [130.88.94.110]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FBjtin025595 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:45:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from star1.jb.man.ac.uk ([130.88.24.176]) by gannet.scg.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.51 (FreeBSD)) id 1EFsBP-000OOE-MC; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:45:39 +0100 Received: from [130.88.24.181] (helo=hecate) by star1.jb.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 1EFsBP-0005xl-00; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:45:39 +0100 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:45:39 +0100 (BST) From: Anita Richards To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net cc: Francois Viallefond , Alan Bridger Subject: re:Source Catalogue DM Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-UoM: Scanned by the University Mail System. See http://www.mcc.ac.uk/cos/email/scanning for details. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.15.7 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Some very belated comments - sorry! I appreciate the way that the model was drawn up with reference to some real source catalogues. However, I think that some of the fields suggested are too 'fine grained'. I note these below. Maybe that means that there is a need for a heirachical model with generic properties at the top level and more domain-specific properties in optional plug-ins. The use case which I am thinking of arises from RadioNet discussions about a Common Proposal Tool, and what we need to specify an observing target. What sruck me was that I imagined that the model was 'source-centred' - i.e. it should aim to provide information about an astronomical detection _or_ a generic model object - but it should not duplicate the role of the Observation and other DMs. Detailed comments: Morphology Distinguish between observational properties and classifications! Observational properties are maybe major and minor axes and position angle (which is conventionally measured from N through E, I am sure that this is defined in STC), or alternatively a series of vertices to define a polygon (for very large objects like molecular clouds or 3C radio galaxies...) This morphology is specific to a particular wavelength domain (and possibly resolution) so this needs to be tied. Classifications like Galaxy should be a completely separate set of elements - at the moment you have 'AGN' as a place holder, I suggest that there is an element like sourceClassification to hold this place - or in fact it is covered by "type"? This should be simplified to come in one place, anyway. Orbit My inclination would be to just have a flag whcih says if this is relevant - in fact, maybe it should be just "d(position)/d(time)" - to cover other kinds of proper motion - and provide a link to an ephemeris or other source of information. In fact maybe this should all come under the properMotion object. Note that, thus, no all objects have a coordinate-based IAU name (although there are other conventions) Similarly there should be a "d(flux)/d(time)" element which just provides a link e.g. for variable stars. "varAmplitude" etc. are both too specific (for a generic source model) and too vague (to actually observe you need to know the time of phase zero etc. Also they are wavelength-specific. Thus I just want a flg and a reference to say if I need to look at the possibility that an object moves or varies with time - not a crude summary which will probably be misleading. We have to be careful that we are allowing people to find and use data and resources - not duplicagte them! SED Maybe Jonathan has some ideas on this, but otherwise I think that what we need is a) Flux density/wavelength data - but we don;t want to get too complicated, maybe just one value per Registry bin (radio-mm-IR etc...) - there should also be a reference for each value. Resolution and limiting noise could also be given b) If high resolution spectra (i.e. relating to molecular, atomic/electronic, nuclear or other line transitions) are available - links "snr" This is only meaningful for a specific observation and would be coverd by SED a) "detectionProbability" and anything that speific belong in individual observation models. The same goes for many of the detailed attributes lower down in the model. I hope that this is not too disruptive, I think that we need some use cases of using the model to retrieve information, not just based on existing catalogues. Otherwise we are on the way to reproducing the whole UCD system! thanks a - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Anita M. S. Richards, AstroGrid Astronomer MERLIN/VLBI National Facility, University of Manchester, Jodrell Bank Observatory, Macclesfield, Cheshire SK11 9DL, U.K. tel +44 (0)1477 572683 (direct); 571321 (switchboard); 571618 (fax). From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Sep 15 16:06:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FE5t4P018122 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:05:55 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8FE5tRn018118 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:05:55 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FE5i4P018049 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:05:44 +0200 (MEST) Received: from earth.astro.umd.edu (earth.astro.umd.edu [129.2.14.2]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FE5gin006570 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:05:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bigstar.astro.umd.edu (bigstar.astro.umd.edu [129.2.15.48]) by earth.astro.umd.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B28C109C2 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:05:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Thomas Organization: University of Maryland To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: Quantity-based catalog model (Was: Re: Source Catalogue DM) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:09:01 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509151009.01349.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.15.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Anita, All, On Thursday 15 September 2005 07:45 am, Anita Richards wrote: > I appreciate the way that the model was drawn up with reference to some > real source catalogues.  However, I think  that some of the fields > suggested are too 'fine grained'.  I note these below.  Maybe that means > that there is a need for a heirachical model with generic properties at > the top level and more domain-specific properties in optional plug-ins. I agree completely. I (and Ed) have been working on a model which allows adoption of the format desired by (prior) proposal, but is expandable/ changeable to meet other needs, in particular all the various catalogs which we have at our site (> 4000) which don't neatly fall into the prior design. Towards this end, I have put together a model which contains a number of components, and utilizes the Quantity to represent the various fields in the catalog, and works well (so far) to represent the contents of over a 100 catalogs from the CDS/ADC archive. I plan to present this work at the ADASS/IVOA meetings this coming October. Some early documents, examples and schema (some which are now out of date, but do a fair job of representing the scope of the work) may be found at the following link: http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalog > > What sruck me was that I imagined that the model was 'source-centred' - > i.e. it should aim to provide information about an astronomical detection > _or_ a generic model object - but it should not duplicate the role of the > Observation and other DMs. Well, the catalog model should adopt structures which are components of the other models. For starters, I believe that proper catalogs need the 'characterization', 'publication/reference', 'history/provenance' components. The model which Ed and I have been designing does just this. =brian -- -------------------------------------- | | Dr. Brian Thomas | | Dept of Astronomy | University of Maryland-College Park | | Phone: (301) 405-2312 | Fax: (301) 314-9067 | -------------------------------------- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Sep 15 18:20:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FGKH4P021068 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:20:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8FGKHmC021067 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:20:17 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FGK94P021021 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:20:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.22]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FGK2in012227 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:20:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (relay [172.24.21.38]) by esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IMV0033J9D3JV@esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net> for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:19:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) by esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30AFE219E60; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:19:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23357-02; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:19:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4909219E4F; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:19:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iso.vilspa.esa.es (isous5.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.153.100]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id 246DB11FAC1; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:19:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from isol11.vilspa.esa.int (isol11.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.153.45]) by iso.vilspa.esa.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FGJkVH009268; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:19:46 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:19:46 +0200 From: "Jesus J. Salgado" Subject: Re: Quantity-based catalog model (Was: Re: Source Catalogue DM) In-reply-to: <200509151009.01349.thomas@astro.umd.edu> To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Message-id: <1126801186.21346.115.camel@isol11.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-14) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-1.2 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] References: <200509151009.01349.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.15.17 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Dear All, Neither Pedro nor Matteo are here until next Monday, but I would like to give my opinion about Anita's (only the preliminary ones) and Ed's comments. Even when I agree some of the fields are too 'fine grained', the idea of the data model sent (in this case, a "Source data model" more than the total "Source Catalog data model" as we talked months ago) is, in my opinion, to identify the items that could describe a "Source", e.g., to have a concrete representation of the data. Of course, which ones (and which not) are these fields is something to be decided, and your inputs will help a lot to improve the model. In the case of the Source catalog data model presented by Brian and Ed, the "source" object is only (basically) a list of quantities. Of course, this is quite flexible as most of the catalogs are presented as tables and a quantity can describe without problems a field in a table (among other things). However, it does not solve the question of what do you need to describe a Source (it only leaves a placeholder to add all the properties that the source could have, but without trying to define them). I think we need something more detailed if we want to use this data model as a base to inter-operate in the future. On the other hand, Brian and Ed are doing a good work trying to identify the links from the general Source data model to other data models (Publications, Provenance,.. etc). As Pedro presented in Poona: http://www.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/IVAODMCatalogsWP/Poona_2004_Catalogue_DM.pdf (page 5) possible links to provenance, curator, registry or other VO data models are needed and there were some placeholders for those kind of connections to be identified. In the same graph (in the image inside red circles), four different items were identified as "complex": the catalog general model (it depends it you want to allow recursive references) (it was finally decided to start with a not recursive model), "Astronomical Event", "Astronomical Object" and, finally, "Source". As the catalog data model was, more or less, restricted to be, at the end, a source catalog data model, it was important to start finding a model for this last item. Best Regards, Jesus Salgado On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 16:09, Brian Thomas wrote: > Anita, All, > > On Thursday 15 September 2005 07:45 am, Anita Richards wrote: > > I appreciate the way that the model was drawn up with reference to some > > real source catalogues. However, I think that some of the fields > > suggested are too 'fine grained'. I note these below. Maybe that means > > that there is a need for a heirachical model with generic properties at > > the top level and more domain-specific properties in optional plug-ins. > > I agree completely. I (and Ed) have been working on a model which allows > adoption of the format desired by (prior) proposal, but is expandable/ > changeable to meet other needs, in particular all the various catalogs > which we have at our site (> 4000) which don't neatly fall into > the prior design. > > Towards this end, I have put together a model which contains a > number of components, and utilizes the Quantity to represent the > various fields in the catalog, and works well (so far) to represent > the contents of over a 100 catalogs from the CDS/ADC archive. I plan > to present this work at the ADASS/IVOA meetings this coming October. > > Some early documents, examples and schema (some which are now out of > date, but do a fair job of representing the scope of the work) may be > found at the following link: > > http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalog > > > > > What sruck me was that I imagined that the model was 'source-centred' - > > i.e. it should aim to provide information about an astronomical detection > > _or_ a generic model object - but it should not duplicate the role of the > > Observation and other DMs. > > Well, the catalog model should adopt structures which are components > of the other models. For starters, I believe that proper catalogs need the > 'characterization', 'publication/reference', 'history/provenance' components. > The model which Ed and I have been designing does just this. > > =brian -- Jesus J. Salgado ESAC Science Archive Team e-mail: Jesus.Salgado@sciops.esa.int Tel + 34 91 8131271 European Space Agency/European Science Astronomy Centre VILLAFRANCA Satellites Tracking Station P.O. Box 50727 E-28080 Villafranca del Castillo MADRID - SPAIN From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Sep 15 19:11:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FHBZ4P004977 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:11:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8FHBZd3004976 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:11:35 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FHBU4P004961 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:11:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from earth.astro.umd.edu (earth.astro.umd.edu [129.2.14.2]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FHBShx002243 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:11:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bigstar.astro.umd.edu (bigstar.astro.umd.edu [129.2.15.48]) by earth.astro.umd.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C99EE109AB for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:11:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Thomas Organization: University of Maryland To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: Nature of the catalogs (Was: Re: Quantity-based catalog model (Was: Re: Source Catalogue DM)) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:14:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.2 References: <200509151009.01349.thomas@astro.umd.edu> <1126801186.21346.115.camel@isol11.vilspa.esa.int> In-Reply-To: <1126801186.21346.115.camel@isol11.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509151314.48608.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.15.19 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 On Thursday 15 September 2005 12:19 pm, Jesus J. Salgado wrote: > However, it does not solve the question of what do you need to describe > a Source (it only leaves a placeholder to add all the properties that > the source could have, but without trying to define them). I think we > need something more detailed if we want to use this data model as a base > to inter-operate in the future. > Jesus, It is true, we have tried to side-step defining what a "source" actually is, and for the near-term, we are happy to start with the Salgado/Osuna/etc model. As you indicate, part of the reason for our side-stepping of this issue was to be able to get to critical structural issues for how to construct a general purpose collection/catalog model. Presumably (at least, we presume :) this model should be reusable to hold more than just sources. I think the debate about sources is whether we prefer to have catalogs hold objects which are oriented towards observational characteristics only, or can we not have theoretical ones (e.g. I may want to construct a catalog of 'galaxies' or 'stars'). I believe we want both, and that we will want to have catalogs which are virtual views of other catalogs (for example, a catalog of galaxies which is cobbled together from several separate source catalogs). Our model is designed with this intention (although still some work to do in this direction, and as always, we are happy to collaborate :) On a related note: what DM -related activity will happen at the IVOA? I haven't seen any information about meetings, etc (perhaps as usual hopelessly out of the loop). I would definitely like to discuss the catalog/collection issues in depth while in Spain! Regards, =b.t. -- -------------------------------------- | | Dr. Brian Thomas | | Dept of Astronomy | University of Maryland-College Park | | Phone: (301) 405-2312 | Fax: (301) 314-9067 | -------------------------------------- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Fri Sep 16 16:02:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GE2Eoc008277 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:02:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8GE2E0j008276 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:02:14 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GE27oc008252 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:02:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.22]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GE25in020328 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:02:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (relay [172.24.21.38]) by esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IMW006NFXN8RH@esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net> for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:01:56 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A0E229DB6; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:01:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16706-08; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:01:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E543A229DB0; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:01:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iso.vilspa.esa.es (isous5.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.153.100]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA32811F8EF; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:01:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from isol03.vilspa.esa.int (isol03.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.153.17]) by iso.vilspa.esa.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GE1uVH024891; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:01:56 +0200 (MEST) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:01:56 +0200 From: Pedro Osuna Subject: Re: Nature of the catalogs (Was: Re: Quantity-based catalog model (Was: Re: Source Catalogue DM)) In-reply-to: <200509151314.48608.thomas@astro.umd.edu> To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Cc: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Message-id: <1126879316.26666.89740.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-14) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-1.2 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] References: <200509151009.01349.thomas@astro.umd.edu> <1126801186.21346.115.camel@isol11.vilspa.esa.int> <200509151314.48608.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.16.12 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Dear all, I am glad to see there start to be reactions on the Source Catalogue DM. As you may know, it was agreed that the Catalogue Data Model subgroup of the IVOA Data Model group would start by trying to define a Source Data Model as a first step toward demonstrating the usability of a general Catalogue Data Model. There were loads of discussions on whether we were trying to model tables, or whether a Catalogue is a table, or what the differences are between VOTables and Catalogues, etc. You can see all those discussions at: http://www.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/IVAODMCatalogsWP/Catalogue_DM_mails.txt All these issues were discussed and it was agreed that we ought to start by the most required and possibly useful type of catalogue model: the one for Sources (please check the page: http://www.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/IVAODMCatalogsWP). The only inputs received for this specific Source DM were compiled into a model that was presented to you in Kyoto, where I insisted (Jonathan, do not parody this....) on the need to receive more inputs to build a solid and useful DM for everyone. This tries to give you an explanation on the "granularity" mentioned by Anita and why we did go to try the Source data model. I will send my own inputs on a separate mail on the specific issues mentioned by Anita. With respect to the possible reactivation of work in the group, and in view that it seems to be still some glowing embers of interest, I will try to grab some of you during the ADASS/Interop meeting here in Madrid, to try to find a common approach to the whole issue. In particular I would like Brian and/or Ed plus others to be there. Will that be possible, Brian? In case you're not coming, could Jonathan collect your inputs/ideas/complaints and transmit them? I believe Brian/Ed model fits in naturally in a possible general IVOA Catalogue DM and also in the Source DM and we only have to find out how to marry the different structures. I will send some of you a separate mail trying to fix some date for discussion in Madrid. Cheers, P. On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 19:14, Brian Thomas wrote: > On Thursday 15 September 2005 12:19 pm, Jesus J. Salgado wrote: > > However, it does not solve the question of what do you need to describe > > a Source (it only leaves a placeholder to add all the properties that > > the source could have, but without trying to define them). I think we > > need something more detailed if we want to use this data model as a base > > to inter-operate in the future. > > > > Jesus, > > It is true, we have tried to side-step defining what a "source" actually > is, and for the near-term, we are happy to start with the Salgado/Osuna/etc > model. As you indicate, part of the reason for our side-stepping > of this issue was to be able to get to critical structural issues for how to > construct a general purpose collection/catalog model. Presumably (at least, > we presume :) this model should be reusable to hold more than just sources. > > I think the debate about sources is whether we prefer to have catalogs hold > objects which are oriented towards observational characteristics only, or can > we not have theoretical ones (e.g. I may want to construct a catalog of 'galaxies' or > 'stars'). I believe we want both, and that we will want to have catalogs which > are virtual views of other catalogs (for example, a catalog of galaxies which is > cobbled together from several separate source catalogs). Our model is designed > with this intention (although still some work to do in this direction, and as always, > we are happy to collaborate :) > > On a related note: what DM -related activity will happen at the IVOA? I haven't seen > any information about meetings, etc (perhaps as usual hopelessly out of the loop). > I would definitely like to discuss the catalog/collection issues in depth while in Spain! > > Regards, > > =b.t. -- Pedro Osuna Alcalaya ESA Science Archives System Engineer Science Archive Team European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC/ESA) e-mail: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Tel + 34 91 8131314 --------------------------------- European Space Astronomy Centre European Space Agency P.O. Box 50727 E-28080 Villafranca del Castillo MADRID - SPAIN From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Fri Sep 16 16:37:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GEbNoc016130 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:37:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8GEbNu8016129 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:37:23 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GEbHoc016121 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:37:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from earth.astro.umd.edu (earth.astro.umd.edu [129.2.14.2]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GEbFhx010387 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:37:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bigstar.astro.umd.edu (bigstar.astro.umd.edu [129.2.15.48]) by earth.astro.umd.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A7510A20 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:37:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Thomas Organization: University of Maryland To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: DM ADASS/IVOA meetings in Oct? (Was: Re: Nature of the catalogs (Was: Re: Quantity-based catalog model (Was: Re: Source Catalogue DM)) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:40:39 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.2 References: <200509151314.48608.thomas@astro.umd.edu> <1126879316.26666.89740.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> In-Reply-To: <1126879316.26666.89740.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509161040.39147.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.16.12 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hi Pedro, On Friday 16 September 2005 10:01 am, Pedro Osuna wrote: > With respect to the possible reactivation of work in the group, and in > view that it seems to be still some glowing embers of interest, I will > try to grab some of you during the ADASS/Interop meeting here in Madrid, > to try to find a common approach to the whole issue. In particular I > would like Brian and/or Ed plus others to be there. Will that be > possible, Brian? In case you're not coming, could Jonathan collect your > inputs/ideas/complaints and transmit them? I believe Brian/Ed model fits > in naturally in a possible general IVOA Catalogue DM and also in the > Source DM and we only have to find out how to marry the different > structures. > Sure. I will be in Madrid (Ed will not) and am quite willing to devote as much time as needed to discuss catalog issues (can't imagine it will be all sorted out in one hour!! How much time are you budgeting?) From my point of view, it would be highly desirable to have the Observations people present, so that the various component parts can be gone over that both models may be sharing (and these components broken up into working groups of interested people). But there is more DM-related work that expands beyond the catalog specifically that meetings should be held for IMO. Some things I would like to see discussed include a discussion by the DM group to move towards next-generation STC (e.g. breaking up the STC into 2 or 3 parts...its way too large a model!), having the Quantity model adopted/finalized and transitioning Q into STC and characterization models (on this last point I have already released example schema of how this may be done some time ago). And thats my short list of priorities... hopefully Jonathan will/is setting time aside for some discussions like these.. At any rate, I plan to release updated catalog/collection model materials which will include more example (validated) catalogs from the CDS/ADC holdings in about a week or so. I will update the DM list when that happens. See you in Madrid! =b.t. -- -------------------------------------- | | Dr. Brian Thomas | | Dept of Astronomy | University of Maryland-College Park | | Phone: (301) 405-2312 | Fax: (301) 314-9067 | -------------------------------------- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Fri Sep 16 16:53:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GErQoc019448 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8GErQI3019447 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:26 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GErLoc019439 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:21 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.22]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GErJhx010996 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (relay [172.24.21.38]) by esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IMX0061W00MRH@esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net> for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0EA229DB1; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19650-02; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26F4229DA9; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iso.vilspa.esa.es (isous5.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.153.100]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8DD11F8EF; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from isol03.vilspa.esa.int (isol03.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.153.17]) by iso.vilspa.esa.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8GErAVH000910; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:10 +0200 (MEST) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:10 +0200 From: Pedro Osuna Subject: Re: DM ADASS/IVOA meetings in Oct? (Was: Re: Nature of the catalogs (Was: Re: Quantity-based catalog model (Was: Re: Source Catalogue DM)) In-reply-to: <200509161040.39147.thomas@astro.umd.edu> To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Cc: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Message-id: <1126882390.26666.89747.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-14) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-1.2 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] References: <200509151314.48608.thomas@astro.umd.edu> <1126879316.26666.89740.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> <200509161040.39147.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.16.13 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hi Brian, I'll try to set-up things for a not-too-short neither-killing meeting. On your request to discuss about other DM-related issues, I am also willing to discuss with the different subgroups how we should link the different models, but this is up to Jonathan to plan...... See you in Madrid then... Cheers, P. On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 16:40, Brian Thomas wrote: > Hi Pedro, > > On Friday 16 September 2005 10:01 am, Pedro Osuna wrote: > > With respect to the possible reactivation of work in the group, and in > > view that it seems to be still some glowing embers of interest, I will > > try to grab some of you during the ADASS/Interop meeting here in Madrid, > > to try to find a common approach to the whole issue. In particular I > > would like Brian and/or Ed plus others to be there. Will that be > > possible, Brian? In case you're not coming, could Jonathan collect your > > inputs/ideas/complaints and transmit them? I believe Brian/Ed model fits > > in naturally in a possible general IVOA Catalogue DM and also in the > > Source DM and we only have to find out how to marry the different > > structures. > > > > Sure. I will be in Madrid (Ed will not) and am quite willing to devote > as much time as needed to discuss catalog issues (can't imagine > it will be all sorted out in one hour!! How much time are you budgeting?) > From my point of view, it would be highly desirable to have the Observations > people present, so that the various component parts can be gone over > that both models may be sharing (and these components broken up into > working groups of interested people). > > But there is more DM-related work that expands beyond the catalog specifically > that meetings should be held for IMO. Some things I would like to see discussed > include a discussion by the DM group to move towards next-generation STC (e.g. > breaking up the STC into 2 or 3 parts...its way too large a model!), having the > Quantity model adopted/finalized and transitioning Q into STC and characterization > models (on this last point I have already released example schema of how this may > be done some time ago). And thats my short list of priorities... hopefully Jonathan > will/is setting time aside for some discussions like these.. > > At any rate, I plan to release updated catalog/collection model materials which > will include more example (validated) catalogs from the CDS/ADC holdings in > about a week or so. I will update the DM list when that happens. > > See you in Madrid! > > =b.t. -- Pedro Osuna Alcalaya ESA Science Archives System Engineer Science Archive Team European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC/ESA) e-mail: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Tel + 34 91 8131314 --------------------------------- European Space Astronomy Centre European Space Agency P.O. Box 50727 E-28080 Villafranca del Castillo MADRID - SPAIN From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Sep 22 21:37:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8MJaW0e001625 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:36:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8MJaWWV001624 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:36:32 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8MJYt0e001165; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:34:55 +0200 (MEST) Received: from earth.astro.umd.edu (earth.astro.umd.edu [129.2.14.2]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8MJYrin018517; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:34:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bigstar.astro.umd.edu (bigstar.astro.umd.edu [129.2.15.48]) by earth.astro.umd.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC3E10A18; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:48:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Thomas Organization: University of Maryland To: voql@ivoa.net Subject: Re: VO Catalog presentation Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:52:12 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.2 Cc: dm-catalog@ivoa.net References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509221052.12871.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.22.22 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Just so as to head of any other false controversy... On Wednesday 21 September 2005 01:39 pm, Maria A. Nieto-Santisteban wrote: > Ok. We will allocate you a 10' slot. > Thank you. > I would be nice you or/and others could give us an update about where the > Catalog DM stand nonetheless That should be Pedro's job. As I wrote in my earlier (and subsequent emails), I will be presenting a possible model and the supporting technology around it. This model is one of two which has been proposed by the DM-catalog group, but doesn't appear to be at odds with the other model (e.g. the other may be realized with our model, and viceversa). However, as Pedro points out, no merger of ideas has yet happened so who knows what the final composition will be. Nevertheless, I doubt that we will be able to address most of these 'structural' issues in that meeting, and I would still like to inform the wider VO community of the work we have been doing. So, hopefully not to be too repetitive, my concern in modeling catalogs has been that we create an adequate structure to allow the needed, sophisticated, queries that the VO applications will demand. As this need overlaps with the VOQL community, I would think you all would be somewhat interested in this topic :) Hence, I am (still) interested in presenting details of what needs to be done in order to create "queriable" catalogs that meet a number of VO requirements and point to possible technologies that I and Ed have been researching which meet this need. If this approach is improper (presenting this work at this point) then I am happy to withdraw my talk so that things proceed more smoothly between myself and all other VO groups (!!). Regards, (and hopefully last email on this subject by me! Please Maria and Pedro come to a decision on what the right approach should be and I will follow it) =brian -- -------------------------------------- | | Dr. Brian Thomas | | Dept of Astronomy | University of Maryland-College Park | | Phone: (301) 405-2312 | Fax: (301) 314-9067 | -------------------------------------- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Sep 22 22:10:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8MK9W0e010654 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:09:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8MK9WT2010653 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:09:32 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8MK0p14008243; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:08:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from earth.astro.umd.edu (earth.astro.umd.edu [129.2.14.2]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8MJIAin016867; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:18:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bigstar.astro.umd.edu (bigstar.astro.umd.edu [129.2.15.48]) by earth.astro.umd.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964DB109E6; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:30:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Thomas Organization: University of Maryland To: voql@ivoa.net Subject: Re: VOCatalog presentation desired? (Was: Re: Prospective =?utf-8?q?agenda=09for_VOQL_session_in?= Madrid Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:34:16 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.2 Cc: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int, dm-catalog@ivoa.net References: <200509210845.26212.brian_thomas@earthlink.net> <1127376817.8500.73.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> In-Reply-To: <1127376817.8500.73.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509221034.16616.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.22.23 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Pedro, All, Perhaps there is some confusion here. First and formost, I agree with Pedro that I am not presenting any official Catalog model to the VO. What *I am presenting* is a possible model which answers a number of needs for VO query, in particular, VOQL (as defined as the query language that happens after ADQL). I was not presuming to detail the composition of the 'source' or any other astro object we may catalog, but I do presume to detail some structural issues with creating a queriable catalog (which is, of course, of paramount importance to catalogs). Therefore, when I saw a call for some information about querying catalogs, I spoke up for giving a short presentation on my ideas on this matter. I hope this clears the air. =b.t. On Thursday 22 September 2005 04:13 am, Pedro Osuna wrote: > Dear all, > > I appreciate the effort that Brian is doing in defining his catalogue > data model, but there has not been any consensus yet on the type of > Catalogue data model that the IVOA will endorse. > > As some of you -including Brian- know (from the Catalogue Data Model > mail list) I have called for a meeting on this issue before the interop > (in particular on monday the 5th in the afternoon) to clarify precisely > many of these issues. After that meeting, I planned to have small > meetings to the chairmans of those groups with which the Catalogue DM > might have a relation (in particular, and as reported in Kyoto, with the > SkyNode - one of the hypothetical Catalogue DM consumers). > > Therefore, you can allocate time if you want to Brian, but not to report > on the IVOA Catalogue Data Model, which I will do in the Data Model > session as per Jonathan's agenda. > > I will be happy to re-report at the VOQL session should you consider it > necessary. > > Cheers, > P. > > > > > On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 14:45, Brian Thomas wrote: > > On Wednesday 21 September 2005 03:43, Maria A. Nieto-Santisteban wrote: > > > * Table data model (standard column names) Where does the Catalog > > > Data Model WG stand? > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I am not sure that I can speak for the Catalog working group, but I can > > present a VO Catalog model which has been proposed and is not (apparently) > > at odds with the other models presented by the WG. > > > > This catalog model is built for the purposes of being queried, > > holding a wide selection of the data which are present in the VO, is developed > > so that it can overlay a series of SQL tables/databases (e.g. SkyNodes > > accessed by ADQL), and can eventually be used in conjunction > > with an advanced form of UCD..."UCD3". > > > > The query mechanism for this catalog is made in terms of "XQuery+" (an > > extended form of the standard XQuery). I can try to fit this all in to 10 min > > presentation. > > > > Some materials (all which is older, and not terribly organized at the moment, > > and which I am in the process of updating) for this model may be found at : > > > > http://archive.astro.umd.edu/VOCatalog > > > > and > > > > http://archive.astro.umd.edu/NX_api/index.html > > > > I shall also be presenting a poster on this work at the ADASS meeting which > > proceeds the IVOA. > > > > Thanks, > > > > =brian -- -------------------------------------- | | Dr. Brian Thomas | | Dept of Astronomy | University of Maryland-College Park | | Phone: (301) 405-2312 | Fax: (301) 314-9067 | -------------------------------------- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Fri Sep 23 01:15:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8MNFX04014318 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:15:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8MNFX4C014317 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:15:33 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8MNFO04014302; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:15:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: from skysrv.pha.jhu.edu (skysrv.pha.jhu.edu [128.220.233.32]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8MNFMhx019839; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:15:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (nieto@localhost) by skysrv.pha.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j8MNFGV26150; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:15:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:15:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Maria A. Nieto-Santisteban" To: voql@ivoa.net cc: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: Brian's VOCatalog presentation In-Reply-To: <200509221034.16616.thomas@astro.umd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.22.30 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hi, I understand Brian is not presenting the official Catalog DM WG view. I think his experience will be good to know by the VOQL WG. > On Thu, 22 Sep 2005, Brian Thomas wrote: > Please Maria and Pedro come to a decision on what the right approach > should be and I will follow it) > On Thursday 22 September 2005 04:13 am, Pedro Osuna wrote: > >... After that meeting, I planned to have small > > meetings to the chairmans of those groups with which the Catalogue DM perfectly sufficient. And in any case, we'll do our best to attend your CAT-DM report during the DM session. Cheers, Maria ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Maria A. Nieto-Santisteban (nieto@pha.jhu.edu) Johns Hopkins University 3400 N. Charles St. Physics & Astronomy Department Baltimore, MD 21218 (USA) Tel: 1 410 516-7679 Fax: 1 410 516-5096 From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Mon Sep 26 10:39:20 2005 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8Q8cx45012112 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8Q8cxIj012109 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:59 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8Q8cp45012085 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.23]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8Q8cnin012826 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (relay2 [172.24.21.39]) by esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0INF003EM1CIXX@esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net> for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F0B229DAE for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14654-04 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F1CC229DAD for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xvsas01.vilspa.esa.es (xvsas01.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.152.101]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EEFC11FAC5 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops.esa.int (xmmwl31.xsci.lan [192.168.1.61]) by xvsas01.vilspa.esa.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8Q8cdOC002277 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:38:39 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:38:39 +0000 From: Matteo Guainazzi Subject: Re: Source Catalogue DM In-reply-to: To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Message-id: <4337B38F.2000506@sciops.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040115 X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-0.4 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) 0.3 MIME_HTML_ONLY BODY: Message only has text/html MIME parts 0.1 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.3 HTML_FONT_BIG BODY: HTML has a big font -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.1 HTML_TITLE_EMPTY BODY: HTML title contains no text References: X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.26.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Dear Anita,

 many thanks for your comments on the Source Catalogue DM. Most of them are being taken into account in the ongoing production of the first document draft. I detail hereby a few exceptions - as well as some more qualitative additional comments:
  1. the "Source Catalogue DM" aims indeed at being - as you wish - "source-centered". Its overall rationale is to isolate elements which belong to, e.g., external models such as "Observations" or "SED", and put link to the relevant models. Hence, I have moved "snr" and "detectionProbability" to "SED" and "Observations", respectively, as you suggest. I am open and keen to do the same if further "duplicated items" are spotted
  2. the "AGN" box is indeed a "Classification"-type box, and will be renamed accordingly. As such, it is intended to be neatly separated from the "Morphology" box, which should contain only purely observational properties, as you suggested
  3. although a simple logical flag to highlight orbiting objects is surely a possible solution, I am not sure I understand why the "Orbit" element should make any harm. I have left it as it was in the original scheme, waiting for more discussion on this point.
  4. I am not sure I understand your suggestion to substitute "varAmplitude" with "d(flux)/d(time)". "d(flux)" is "varAmplitude", if I understand correctly what you mean. On the other hand, "d(time)" can be often misleading, as it may be related to the observation sampling rather then to the intrinsic variability timescale of the source. I have left it as it was in the original scheme, waiting for more discussion on this point. I have left as well "varPeriod" and "varType", which look to me unambiguous, and therefore worth being included in the model
  5. it goes without saying that many - if not most - of the quantities in the model are wavelength-dependent. We have "Source.frequency", in facts
  6. is "limiting noise" the same as "localBackgroundNoise"? I guess so. In this case, I believe that it is more appropriate to leave it in the "Observation" box
 Regards, Matteo
-- 
Matteo Guainazzi
XMM-Newton SOC				Matteo.Guainazzi@sciops.esa.int
European Space Astronomy Centre	of ESA	Phone:     +34 91 8131 176
VILSPA, Apartado 50727, E-28080 Madrid 	Fax:       +34 91 8131 172
From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Sep 29 11:58:02 2005 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8T9vXmA008154 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:57:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8T9vXvm008153 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:57:33 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8T9vQmA008142 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:57:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from curlew.cs.man.ac.uk (curlew.cs.man.ac.uk [130.88.13.7]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8T9vOhx016678 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:57:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from star1.jb.man.ac.uk ([130.88.24.176]) by curlew.cs.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.51 (FreeBSD)) id 1EKvAD-000CJr-9B for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:57:17 +0100 Received: from [130.88.24.181] (helo=hecate) by star1.jb.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 1EKvA8-0002nG-00 for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:57:12 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:57:12 +0100 (BST) From: Anita Richards To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: Re: Source Catalogue DM Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-UoM: Scanned by the University Mail System. See http://www.mcc.ac.uk/cos/email/scanning for details. X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.29.5 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Dear all, Matteo - thanks for clarifications and comments (Date: 2005-09-26Z08:38:39) A brief response: I agree entirely with most of your points which you ahve put better than I did. However > 3. although a simple logical flag to highlight orbiting objects is > surely a possible solution, I am not sure I understand why the > "Orbit" element should make any harm. I have left it as it was in the > original scheme, waiting for more discussion on this point. I don;t object strongly, I suggested simplifying it for two reasons, firstly on principle, and secondly that the presnt model seems to be too detailed for my simplistic version but not detailed enough for re-observation (e.g. it does not seem to include the time/place origin on the orbit..). Similarly on your point 4. about variable flux. "varPeriod" is fine for analysts, but observers need to know the zero time of the period. In fact, from a purely observational point of view, it can be difficult to disentangle the sort of variability e.g. caused by the pulsation of a solitary star, from an eclipsing and/or eruptive binary. It might be helpful to look at the definitions of the various IRAS and Hipparcos flags, which was a very simple way (before XML was invented!) of attempting unbiased observational classification - although even they got some things wrong, e.g. Hipparcos assumed that all stars were unresolved and so categorised some solitary red supergiants as multiple. > 5. it goes without saying that many - if not most - of the quantities in > the model are wavelength-dependent. We have "Source.frequency", in > facts Hmm, so is each property of a source related to s specific frequency? I think that this would be clearer to me if I were to see it applied to some example sources. We could take some objects from NED or SIMBAD and see if we can model them - e.g. Markarian 273 (galaxy) or HM Sge (symbiotic binary star) - and move on to more difficult cases like star-forming regions or clusters of galaxies. I'd be happy to help, maybe we can discuss this in Madrid - I haven't time to do much before then, sorry. As a more general point and partly in reply to Jesus, (Date: 2005-09-15Z16:19:4) I think that if we do the above it will be obvious that we have to be very selective in what properties we explicitly include, otherwise the model will become so complex that no-one will fill it in. It should be possible to opulate the model by some kind of supervised automatic harvesting. It is not supposed to reproduce all the information in every catalogue. That is why I feel that terms like Albedo are far too specific. We stray into the area covered by ucd's... > However, it does not solve the question of what do you need to describe > a Source (it only leaves a placeholder to add all the properties that > the source could have, but without trying to define them). I think we > need something more detailed if we want to use this data model as a base > to inter-operate in the future. We need some use cases, the presentation mentioned at http://www.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/IVAODMCatalogsWP/Poona_2004_Catalogue_DM.pdf has Mireille's suggestion "Is the source in this catalogue the same as the one in this other catalogue" which is not nearly as simple as it might sound in the case of e.g. a gamma ray burst with a poor position - in which case you have to identify which of maybe 10 objects in its error box is a likely host - or a galaxy with radio jet hotspots many arcmin from the optical centre... But maybe we should start with simpler cases, e.g. as in Berndt Vollmer's SpecFind. Mireille's question has the very practical corollary, of helping when you want to observe a source e.g. in the radio, when you only ahve X-ray and optical properties known, etc. I like the model presented at p. 5 of the Poona_2004_Catalogue_DM.pdf - I don;t think that we want to get much more complex. However, thre should be a link to the Observation DM - as I understand it, the object labled Observation on p. 5 is specifically for VOEvent use, as it omites some rather vital information for most people like Frequency. thanks a - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Anita M. S. Richards, AstroGrid Astronomer MERLIN/VLBI National Facility, University of Manchester, Jodrell Bank Observatory, Macclesfield, Cheshire SK11 9DL, U.K. tel +44 (0)1477 572683 (direct); 571321 (switchboard); 571618 (fax). From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Sep 29 13:46:47 2005 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8TBkUmA002978 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/Submit) id j8TBkUoZ002976 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:30 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8TBkOmA002956 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.23]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8TBkLhx022187 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (relay2 [172.24.21.39]) by esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0INK00HC9U10S4@esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net> for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:13 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) by esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8240E219E56; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01033-10; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583F4219E52; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iso.vilspa.esa.es (isous5.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.153.100]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A3011F8EF; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from isol03.vilspa.esa.int (isol03.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.153.17]) by iso.vilspa.esa.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8TBkBVH025794; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:11 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:46:11 +0200 From: Pedro Osuna Subject: Re: Source Catalogue DM In-reply-to: To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Cc: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Message-id: <1127994371.8500.4559.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-14) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-0.6 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) 0.6 J_CHICKENPOX_31 BODY: 3alpha-pock-1alpha -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] References: X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.29.7 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Dear Anita, I have refrained from answering on specific issues as to whether the Source Data Model is too complex etc. because that will be treated at the meeting I proposed for monday. In this meeting I pretend to show you all how we are trying to specify the difference between a Catalogue Data Model, a Catalogue of Sources described by a Source Data Model and a simple Table. I think there is some confusion within the group on what these things mean, and I'm a bit surprised that this comes out so late; but on monday will try to come to common agreements on this. On the presentation in Poona, there is a more recent one from Kyoto that I have uploaded to: http://www.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/IVAODMCatalogsWP (which was in the Kyoto meeting pages). In it, you can see clearer links to Observations, etc., but as I say, I will be precisely trying to explain all this on monday.... See you then here on monday (the 3rd, by the way, not the 5th as I said in my original mail) Cheers, P. On Thu, 2005-09-29 at 11:57, Anita Richards wrote: > Dear all, > > Matteo - thanks for clarifications and comments (Date: > 2005-09-26Z08:38:39) > > A brief response: > I agree entirely with most of your points which you ahve put better than I > did. However > > > 3. although a simple logical flag to highlight orbiting objects is > > surely a possible solution, I am not sure I understand why the > > "Orbit" element should make any harm. I have left it as it was in the > > original scheme, waiting for more discussion on this point. > > I don;t object strongly, I suggested simplifying it for two reasons, > firstly on principle, and secondly that the presnt model seems to be too > detailed for my simplistic version but not detailed enough for > re-observation (e.g. it does not seem to include the time/place origin on > the orbit..). > > Similarly on your point 4. about variable flux. > "varPeriod" is fine for analysts, but observers need to know the zero time > of the period. > > In fact, from a purely observational point of view, it can be difficult to > disentangle the sort of variability e.g. caused by the pulsation of a > solitary star, from an eclipsing and/or eruptive binary. It might be > helpful to look at the definitions of the various IRAS and Hipparcos > flags, which was a very simple way (before XML was invented!) of > attempting unbiased observational classification - although even they got > some things wrong, e.g. Hipparcos assumed that all stars were unresolved > and so categorised some solitary red supergiants as multiple. > > > 5. it goes without saying that many - if not most - of the quantities in > > the model are wavelength-dependent. We have "Source.frequency", in > > facts > > Hmm, so is each property of a source related to s specific frequency? I > think that this would be clearer to me if I were to see it applied to some > example sources. We could take some objects from NED or SIMBAD and see if > we can model them - e.g. Markarian 273 (galaxy) or HM Sge (symbiotic > binary star) - and move on to more difficult cases like star-forming > regions or clusters of galaxies. I'd be happy to help, maybe we can > discuss this in Madrid - I haven't time to do much before then, sorry. > > As a more general point and partly in reply to Jesus, > (Date: 2005-09-15Z16:19:4) > > I think that if we do the above it will be obvious that we have to be very > selective in what properties we explicitly include, otherwise the model > will become so complex that no-one will fill it in. It should be possible > to opulate the model by some kind of supervised automatic harvesting. It > is not supposed to reproduce all the information in every catalogue. > That is why I feel that terms like Albedo are far too specific. We stray > into the area covered by ucd's... > > > However, it does not solve the question of what do you need to describe > > a Source (it only leaves a placeholder to add all the properties that > > the source could have, but without trying to define them). I think we > > need something more detailed if we want to use this data model as a base > > to inter-operate in the future. > > We need some use cases, the presentation mentioned at > http://www.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/IVAODMCatalogsWP/Poona_2004_Catalogue_DM.pdf > has Mireille's suggestion "Is the source in this catalogue the same as the > one in this other catalogue" which is not nearly as simple as it might > sound in the case of e.g. a gamma ray burst with a poor position - in > which case you have to identify which of maybe 10 objects in its error box > is a likely host - or a galaxy with radio jet hotspots many arcmin from > the optical centre... > > But maybe we should start with simpler cases, e.g. as in Berndt Vollmer's > SpecFind. Mireille's question has the very practical corollary, of > helping when you want to observe a source e.g. in the radio, when you only > ahve X-ray and optical properties known, etc. > > I like the model presented at p. 5 of the Poona_2004_Catalogue_DM.pdf - I > don;t think that we want to get much more complex. However, thre should > be a link to the Observation DM - as I understand it, the object labled > Observation on p. 5 is specifically for VOEvent use, as it omites some > rather vital information for most people like Frequency. > > thanks > a > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Dr. Anita M. S. Richards, AstroGrid Astronomer > MERLIN/VLBI National Facility, University of Manchester, > Jodrell Bank Observatory, Macclesfield, Cheshire SK11 9DL, U.K. > tel +44 (0)1477 572683 (direct); 571321 (switchboard); 571618 (fax). -- Pedro Osuna Alcalaya ESA Science Archives System Engineer Science Archive Team European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC/ESA) e-mail: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Tel + 34 91 8131314 --------------------------------- European Space Astronomy Centre European Space Agency P.O. Box 50727 E-28080 Villafranca del Castillo MADRID - SPAIN From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Thu Sep 7 18:29:20 2006 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k87GTAwW014997 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:29:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/Submit) id k87GTAgU014996 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:29:10 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k87GT90g014987; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:29:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.23]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k87GT7um003896; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:29:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (relay2 [172.24.21.39]) by esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.04 (built Feb 8 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J5800GK3AYGNN@esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net>; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:27:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.esa.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B8A229EDB; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:27:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13726-01-5; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:27:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1E022A076; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:04:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iso.vilspa.esa.es (isous5.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.153.100]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5632411F8EF; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:04:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from isol03.vilspa.esa.int (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1/nxI6/nC4iSsO1kvVpFuBUTXD+LaXafVg@isol03.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.153.17]) by iso.vilspa.esa.es (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k87F4u9u000227; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:04:56 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:04:56 +0200 From: Pedro Osuna Subject: STC subset for Source Catalogue Data Model To: Arnold Rots Cc: Pedro Osuna , Aurelien.Stebe@sciops.esa.int, Inaki.Ortiz@sciops.esa.int, Jesus.Salgado@sciops.esa.int, dm@ivoa.net, dm-catalog@ivoa.net Message-id: <1157641496.8422.81.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-27) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-1.2 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.4.0.264935, Antispam-Data: 2006.9.7.91442 Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Pedro Osuna Dear Arnold, in the context of the Source Catalogue Data Model, we are trying to make use of the STC to model the part of the Source DM related to the position of the source. We are accessing Source Data Model-aware ADQL servers that we have installed over some of the ESA projects (XMM-Newton, ISO) and some CDS Vizier ones (Tycho2, USNOB1, Denis). In some of these catalogues, we do have entries in, e.g., equatorial J2000 coordinates and galactic ones. To make the correspondence between them and the STC, we would need unique (i.e., biunivocal) UTYPEs to describe the positional STC elements corresponding to each particular coordinate type. We have tried to build such a utype from the current STC structure, but have not succeeded so far. Could you please give us some advice on how to do it? Wait for your news. Thanks. Cheers, P. -- Pedro Osuna Alcalaya European Space Agency (ESA) European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC) Research and Scientific Support Department (RSSD) Astronomy Science Operations Division (SCI-SD) e-mail: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Tel + 34 91 813 13 14 Fax: +34 91 813 11 72 ------------------------------------------------- European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC) P.O. Box 50727 E-28080 Villafranca del Castillo MADRID - SPAIN From owner-dm@eso.org Thu Sep 7 18:29:40 2006 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k87GTArO014992 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:29:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/Submit) id k87GTAUO014991 for dm-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:29:10 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm@eso.org using -f Received: from rocky.hq.eso.org (rocky.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.43]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k87GT90g014987; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:29:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.23]) by rocky.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k87GT7um003896; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:29:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (relay2 [172.24.21.39]) by esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.04 (built Feb 8 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J5800GK3AYGNN@esa-av-smtp2.gmessaging.net>; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:27:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.esa.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B8A229EDB; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:27:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas1.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13726-01-5; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:27:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas1.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1E022A076; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:04:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iso.vilspa.esa.es (isous5.vilspa.esa.es [193.147.153.100]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5632411F8EF; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:04:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from isol03.vilspa.esa.int (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1/nxI6/nC4iSsO1kvVpFuBUTXD+LaXafVg@isol03.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.153.17]) by iso.vilspa.esa.es (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k87F4u9u000227; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:04:56 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:04:56 +0200 From: Pedro Osuna Subject: STC subset for Source Catalogue Data Model To: Arnold Rots Cc: Pedro Osuna , Aurelien.Stebe@sciops.esa.int, Inaki.Ortiz@sciops.esa.int, Jesus.Salgado@sciops.esa.int, dm@ivoa.net, dm-catalog@ivoa.net Message-id: <1157641496.8422.81.camel@isol03.vilspa.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-27) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-1.2 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.4.0.264935, Antispam-Data: 2006.9.7.91442 Sender: owner-dm@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Pedro Osuna Dear Arnold, in the context of the Source Catalogue Data Model, we are trying to make use of the STC to model the part of the Source DM related to the position of the source. We are accessing Source Data Model-aware ADQL servers that we have installed over some of the ESA projects (XMM-Newton, ISO) and some CDS Vizier ones (Tycho2, USNOB1, Denis). In some of these catalogues, we do have entries in, e.g., equatorial J2000 coordinates and galactic ones. To make the correspondence between them and the STC, we would need unique (i.e., biunivocal) UTYPEs to describe the positional STC elements corresponding to each particular coordinate type. We have tried to build such a utype from the current STC structure, but have not succeeded so far. Could you please give us some advice on how to do it? Wait for your news. Thanks. Cheers, P. -- Pedro Osuna Alcalaya European Space Agency (ESA) European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC) Research and Scientific Support Department (RSSD) Astronomy Science Operations Division (SCI-SD) e-mail: Pedro.Osuna@esa.int Tel + 34 91 813 13 14 Fax: +34 91 813 11 72 ------------------------------------------------- European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC) P.O. Box 50727 E-28080 Villafranca del Castillo MADRID - SPAIN From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Tue Sep 26 11:54:05 2006 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 10000000 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8Q9rvXR001816 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:53:57 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/Submit) id k8Q9rvVF001815 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:53:57 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from serapis.hq.eso.org (serapis.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.10]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8Q9ruYP001811 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:53:56 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [134.171.40.38] (pc012503.hq.eso.org [134.171.40.38]) by serapis.hq.eso.org (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k8Q9ruQ06285 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:53:56 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4518F8B4.90701@eso.org> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:53:56 +0200 From: Jean-Christophe malapert User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7-1.1.fc3 (X11/20050929) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: Coordinate System in DM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010302080001060307050704" Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Jean-Christophe malapert This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010302080001060307050704 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I would like to use the Source DM in oder to store object coordinates and magnitudes. However I don't see the Coordinate system used (ICRS,FK5,FK4). Basically, with FK5,Fk4 you need respectively to define the equinox and the epoch. Would it be possible to add these parameters in the DM ? Cheers, J-Christophe --------------010302080001060307050704 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="jmalaper.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jmalaper.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Jean-Christophe Malapert n:Malapert;Jean-Christophe org:ESO;VO Systems adr:;;Karl-Schwarzschild-Str. 2;Garching bei Munchen;;85748;Germany email;internet:jmalaper@eso.org title:Scientific Software Engineer tel;work:+49 89 3200 6168 tel;fax:+49 89 3200 6677 version:2.1 end:vcard --------------010302080001060307050704-- From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Tue Sep 26 15:36:20 2006 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8QDaC5V011145 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:36:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/Submit) id k8QDaCPu011144 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:36:12 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8QDaC1b011140 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:36:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net [194.51.201.22]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8QDaAVh022030 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:36:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (relay [172.24.21.38]) by esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.04 (built Feb 8 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J6700KH9BZCCN@esa-av-smtp1.gmessaging.net> for dm-catalog@ivoa.net; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:26:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.esa.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0D3219E50; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:25:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esa-spas2.gmessaging.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esa-spas2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08186-01-10; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:25:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int [193.147.152.105]) by esa-spas2.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB46219E6A; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:25:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sciops.esac.int (scimail.esac.esa.int [193.147.152.87]) by sciops-mailgw.vilspa.esa.int (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A58011F8EF; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:25:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [172.24.3.70] ([172.24.3.70]) by sciops.esac.int (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QDPlHg025194; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:25:47 +0200 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:25:47 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki_Ortiz_de_Landaluce?= Subject: Re: Coordinate System in DM In-reply-to: <4518F8B4.90701@eso.org> To: Jean-Christophe malapert Cc: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Message-id: <45192A5B.6080002@sciops.esa.int> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060909) X-Spam-Score: Content analysis details: (-1.2 points, 4.5 points required to be considered as spam) -1.2 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] References: <4518F8B4.90701@eso.org> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.266434, Antispam-Engine: 2.4.0.264935, Antispam-Data: 2006.9.26.60943 Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki_Ortiz_de_Landaluce?= Dear Jean-Christophe Last week we presented at the IVOA Interoperability meeting held in Moscow an updated version of the Source Catalog Data Model. You can have a look at what we have presented so far here http://www.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/IvoaDataModel/SourceDM_Moscow_2006.pdf The model is going to be released formally as a new IVOA Working Draft shortly. Among several changes that we have included, there is one that might be of your interest or may even solve your request. The 'Source' element now points to a 'Coordinates' container , where the equinox, the 2D coordinate values and their respective errors can be specified as attributes. As we try to keep the model as simple as possible and still consistent with the rest of the data models we take the same assumptions as the STC and the Coordinate Data Model do about coordinate frames, equinox and epoch: "[... ] the token identifying the coordinate system and frame. The usual value is ICRS, which is the standard post-Hipparcos-era RA and Dec with an equinox consistent with J2000. The other systems have different orientation and rotation: - FK4 and FK5 have a pole whose position depends on time with respect to the ICRS system. This pole also depends on a parameter called the equinox; *by convention FK4 and FK5 use Besselian and Julian epochs (defaults B1950.0 and J2000.0) respectively to label the equinox*. [....]" (Excerpt from Coordinates Data model, IVOA DM WG Internal Note) Therefore we have included the equinox attribute only, assuming that the default epochs would label the equinox for FK4 and FK5. We decided to consider the epoch implicitly in the equinox so to start with a simple model. Anyway, if you find it useful, the 'Coordinates' class could be easily extended to include the 'reference frame' and 'epoch' attributes too, where the reference frame would be required (with same set of allowed values as STC and Coordinates Data Model describes) and the epoch optional. Should you have any other question please let us know. Cheers, Inaki Ortiz Jean-Christophe malapert wrote: > Dear all, > > I would like to use the Source DM in oder to store object coordinates > and magnitudes. However I don't see the Coordinate system used > (ICRS,FK5,FK4). Basically, with FK5,Fk4 you need respectively to > define the equinox and the epoch. Would it be possible to add these > parameters in the DM ? > > Cheers, > J-Christophe From owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Tue Sep 26 16:47:15 2006 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8QEl0nS025089 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:47:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/Submit) id k8QEl0oU025088 for dm-catalog-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:47:00 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm-catalog@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8QEkm7r025052; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:46:53 +0200 (MEST) Received: from earth.astro.umd.edu (earth.astro.umd.edu [129.2.14.2]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8QEkk2f026073; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:46:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bigstar.astro.umd.edu (bigstar.astro.umd.edu [129.2.15.48]) (using SSLv3 with cipher EXP1024-RC4-SHA (56/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by earth.astro.umd.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D461E3D8C; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:46:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Thomas Organization: University of Maryland To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net, dm@ivoa.net Subject: Re: Coordinate System in DM Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:50:10 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.3 References: <4518F8B4.90701@eso.org> In-Reply-To: <4518F8B4.90701@eso.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609261050.10308.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.266434, Antispam-Engine: 2.4.0.264935, Antispam-Data: 2006.9.26.72442 Sender: owner-dm-catalog@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Brian Thomas On Tuesday 26 September 2006 05:53, Jean-Christophe malapert wrote: > Dear all, > > I would like to use the Source DM in oder to store object coordinates > and magnitudes. However I don't see the Coordinate system used > (ICRS,FK5,FK4). Basically, with FK5,Fk4 you need respectively to define > the equinox and the epoch. Would it be possible to add these parameters > in the DM ? Ah, I haven't seen the latest document (where is it posted) but it sounds like the source DM just inherit in the relevant parts of the STC to handle this. =brian > > Cheers, > J-Christophe > From owner-dm@eso.org Tue Sep 26 16:47:21 2006 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8QEksJP025078 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:46:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/Submit) id k8QEksJu025077 for dm-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:46:54 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mercury.hq.eso.org: majordomo set sender to owner-dm@eso.org using -f Received: from apollo.hq.eso.org (apollo.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.42]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8QEkm7r025052; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:46:53 +0200 (MEST) Received: from earth.astro.umd.edu (earth.astro.umd.edu [129.2.14.2]) by apollo.hq.eso.org (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k8QEkk2f026073; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:46:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bigstar.astro.umd.edu (bigstar.astro.umd.edu [129.2.15.48]) (using SSLv3 with cipher EXP1024-RC4-SHA (56/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by earth.astro.umd.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D461E3D8C; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:46:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Thomas Organization: University of Maryland To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net, dm@ivoa.net Subject: Re: Coordinate System in DM Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:50:10 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.3 References: <4518F8B4.90701@eso.org> In-Reply-To: <4518F8B4.90701@eso.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609261050.10308.thomas@astro.umd.edu> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.266434, Antispam-Engine: 2.4.0.264935, Antispam-Data: 2006.9.26.72442 Sender: owner-dm@eso.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Brian Thomas On Tuesday 26 September 2006 05:53, Jean-Christophe malapert wrote: > Dear all, > > I would like to use the Source DM in oder to store object coordinates > and magnitudes. However I don't see the Coordinate system used > (ICRS,FK5,FK4). Basically, with FK5,Fk4 you need respectively to define > the equinox and the epoch. Would it be possible to add these parameters > in the DM ? Ah, I haven't seen the latest document (where is it posted) but it sounds like the source DM just inherit in the relevant parts of the STC to handle this. =brian > > Cheers, > J-Christophe > From apps-bounces@ivoa.net Tue Feb 10 20:25:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by fiction.hq.eso.org (ESO maildrop) with ESMTP id 66F1762422B; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (pat.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.15]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n1AJP9QQ002292; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C752ECA3C7; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:09 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: apps@pat.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: apps@pat.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8590BECA3C2; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from aeon.hq.eso.org (aeon.hq.eso.org [134.171.45.131]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n1AJP2SX002227; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail178.messagelabs.com (mail178.messagelabs.com [85.158.139.19]) by aeon.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 35D4B5A656; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:23:43 +0100 (CET) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: kborne@gmu.edu X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-178.messagelabs.com!1234293900!25770785!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.0.0; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [129.174.0.40] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests= Received: (qmail 30976 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2009 19:25:00 -0000 Received: from caduceus1.gmu.edu (HELO caduceus1.gmu.edu) (129.174.0.40) by server-10.tower-178.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2009 19:25:00 -0000 Received: from gmu.edu ([129.174.0.44]) by caduceus1.gmu.edu (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEV0077678K5J10@caduceus1.gmu.edu>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:24:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [129.174.0.45] (Forwarded-For: [71.179.175.199]) by mercury3.gmu.edu (mshttpd); Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:24:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:24:20 -0500 From: Kirk D Borne Subject: FWD: Practical Semantic Astronomy 09 -- FINAL CALL FOR PARTICIPATION To: astrorg@ivoa.net, dm-catalog@ivoa.net, apps@ivoa.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw)" Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-BeenThere: apps@ivoa.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Applications Working Group - IVOA List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: apps-bounces@ivoa.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline **Apologies for duplicate copies** Practical Semantic Astronomy 09 -- FINAL CALL FOR PARTICIPATION 2-5 March 2009 Glasgow, UK http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/workshops/semast09/ It's now just a little under a month to the second Practical Semantic Astronomy workshop. The programme is online at , and it promises to be an interesting and hugely valuable workshop, with lots of cross-fertilisation between the broad range of participants. The workshop should be of interest to people working in semantic technologies generally, as well as science data specialists, as we'll be examining challenging concrete use-cases, covering discipline- specific linked open data, reasoning about data, and semantic search. Plus, Glasgow's a great city! We look forward to seeing you in March. Semantic astronomy promises to expand the scientific discovery potential of exponentially growing data collections by enabling natural language querying, content-based searching, rich metadata markup and retrieval, rapid integration of diverse data collections, and machine-assisted scientific discovery. Practical Semantic Astronomy 2009 is the second in a series of workshops first held at Caltech in February 2008. The workshop brings together experts from a broad range of disciplines using semantic technologies, alongside practitioners experimenting with these techniques to address current problems in astroinformatics. The Virtual Observatory is a loose planet-wide collaboration of astronomy computing projects, aiming to make available the high-volume and rich data of astronomy. Although astronomical data is generally well-described, it is very dispersed, so that there is a substantial data-discovery and integration problem, making it fertile ground for the sorts of semantic approaches applied with such success in other disciplines. In SemAst 2009, we will pair keynote speakers and astronomical use- cases, focusing broad expertise on challenging and exciting problems in astroinformatics. The keynotes speakers will be: * Danny Ayers, Talis, UK * Peter Fox, National Center for Atmospheric Research, USA * Antoine Isaac, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, The Netherlands * Amedeo Napoli, LORIA, France * Joel Sachs, University of Maryland, Baltimore County, USA * Robert Stevens, University of Manchester, UK Topics of Interest * Astronomy and solar ontologies * Knowledgebases * Metadata for astronomical databases * Semantic integration * Semantic queries and data mining * Semantic technologies --Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw) Content-type: text/x-vcard; name=kborne.vcf; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename=kborne.vcf Content-description: Card for Kirk D Borne begin:vcard n:Borne;Kirk fn:Kirk D Borne tel;fax:703-993-9300 tel;work:703-993-8402 url:http://classweb.gmu.edu/kborne/ org:George Mason University;Dept of Computational and Data Sciences adr:;;4400 University Drive, MS 6A2;Fairfax;VA;22030;USA version:2.1 email;internet:kborne@gmu.edu title:Associate Professor end:vcard --Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw)-- From astrorg-bounces@ivoa.net Tue Feb 10 20:25:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by fiction.hq.eso.org (ESO maildrop) with ESMTP id A98F362427F; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (pat.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.15]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n1AJP9r4002295; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED0AECA3CD; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:09 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: astrorg@pat.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: astrorg@pat.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8590BECA3C2; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from aeon.hq.eso.org (aeon.hq.eso.org [134.171.45.131]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n1AJP2SX002227; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail178.messagelabs.com (mail178.messagelabs.com [85.158.139.19]) by aeon.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 35D4B5A656; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:23:43 +0100 (CET) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: kborne@gmu.edu X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-178.messagelabs.com!1234293900!25770785!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.0.0; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [129.174.0.40] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests= Received: (qmail 30976 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2009 19:25:00 -0000 Received: from caduceus1.gmu.edu (HELO caduceus1.gmu.edu) (129.174.0.40) by server-10.tower-178.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2009 19:25:00 -0000 Received: from gmu.edu ([129.174.0.44]) by caduceus1.gmu.edu (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEV0077678K5J10@caduceus1.gmu.edu>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:24:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [129.174.0.45] (Forwarded-For: [71.179.175.199]) by mercury3.gmu.edu (mshttpd); Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:24:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:24:20 -0500 From: Kirk D Borne Subject: FWD: Practical Semantic Astronomy 09 -- FINAL CALL FOR PARTICIPATION To: astrorg@ivoa.net, dm-catalog@ivoa.net, apps@ivoa.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw)" Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-BeenThere: astrorg@ivoa.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Astro-RG Interst Group - IVOA List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: astrorg-bounces@ivoa.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline **Apologies for duplicate copies** Practical Semantic Astronomy 09 -- FINAL CALL FOR PARTICIPATION 2-5 March 2009 Glasgow, UK http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/workshops/semast09/ It's now just a little under a month to the second Practical Semantic Astronomy workshop. The programme is online at , and it promises to be an interesting and hugely valuable workshop, with lots of cross-fertilisation between the broad range of participants. The workshop should be of interest to people working in semantic technologies generally, as well as science data specialists, as we'll be examining challenging concrete use-cases, covering discipline- specific linked open data, reasoning about data, and semantic search. Plus, Glasgow's a great city! We look forward to seeing you in March. Semantic astronomy promises to expand the scientific discovery potential of exponentially growing data collections by enabling natural language querying, content-based searching, rich metadata markup and retrieval, rapid integration of diverse data collections, and machine-assisted scientific discovery. Practical Semantic Astronomy 2009 is the second in a series of workshops first held at Caltech in February 2008. The workshop brings together experts from a broad range of disciplines using semantic technologies, alongside practitioners experimenting with these techniques to address current problems in astroinformatics. The Virtual Observatory is a loose planet-wide collaboration of astronomy computing projects, aiming to make available the high-volume and rich data of astronomy. Although astronomical data is generally well-described, it is very dispersed, so that there is a substantial data-discovery and integration problem, making it fertile ground for the sorts of semantic approaches applied with such success in other disciplines. In SemAst 2009, we will pair keynote speakers and astronomical use- cases, focusing broad expertise on challenging and exciting problems in astroinformatics. The keynotes speakers will be: * Danny Ayers, Talis, UK * Peter Fox, National Center for Atmospheric Research, USA * Antoine Isaac, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, The Netherlands * Amedeo Napoli, LORIA, France * Joel Sachs, University of Maryland, Baltimore County, USA * Robert Stevens, University of Manchester, UK Topics of Interest * Astronomy and solar ontologies * Knowledgebases * Metadata for astronomical databases * Semantic integration * Semantic queries and data mining * Semantic technologies --Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw) Content-type: text/x-vcard; name=kborne.vcf; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename=kborne.vcf Content-description: Card for Kirk D Borne begin:vcard n:Borne;Kirk fn:Kirk D Borne tel;fax:703-993-9300 tel;work:703-993-8402 url:http://classweb.gmu.edu/kborne/ org:George Mason University;Dept of Computational and Data Sciences adr:;;4400 University Drive, MS 6A2;Fairfax;VA;22030;USA version:2.1 email;internet:kborne@gmu.edu title:Associate Professor end:vcard --Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw)-- From dm-catalog-bounces@ivoa.net Tue Feb 10 20:25:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by fiction.hq.eso.org (ESO maildrop) with ESMTP id C8716624281; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (pat.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.15]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n1AJP9x5002298; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91971ECA3D1; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:09 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: dm-catalog@pat.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: dm-catalog@pat.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8590BECA3C2; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from aeon.hq.eso.org (aeon.hq.eso.org [134.171.45.131]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n1AJP2SX002227; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail178.messagelabs.com (mail178.messagelabs.com [85.158.139.19]) by aeon.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 35D4B5A656; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:23:43 +0100 (CET) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: kborne@gmu.edu X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-178.messagelabs.com!1234293900!25770785!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.0.0; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [129.174.0.40] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests= Received: (qmail 30976 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2009 19:25:00 -0000 Received: from caduceus1.gmu.edu (HELO caduceus1.gmu.edu) (129.174.0.40) by server-10.tower-178.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2009 19:25:00 -0000 Received: from gmu.edu ([129.174.0.44]) by caduceus1.gmu.edu (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEV0077678K5J10@caduceus1.gmu.edu>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:24:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [129.174.0.45] (Forwarded-For: [71.179.175.199]) by mercury3.gmu.edu (mshttpd); Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:24:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:24:20 -0500 From: Kirk D Borne Subject: FWD: Practical Semantic Astronomy 09 -- FINAL CALL FOR PARTICIPATION To: astrorg@ivoa.net, dm-catalog@ivoa.net, apps@ivoa.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw)" Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Cc: kborne@gmu.edu X-BeenThere: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Catalog Data Modelling \(DM WG\) - IVOA" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dm-catalog-bounces@ivoa.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline **Apologies for duplicate copies** Practical Semantic Astronomy 09 -- FINAL CALL FOR PARTICIPATION 2-5 March 2009 Glasgow, UK http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/workshops/semast09/ It's now just a little under a month to the second Practical Semantic Astronomy workshop. The programme is online at , and it promises to be an interesting and hugely valuable workshop, with lots of cross-fertilisation between the broad range of participants. The workshop should be of interest to people working in semantic technologies generally, as well as science data specialists, as we'll be examining challenging concrete use-cases, covering discipline- specific linked open data, reasoning about data, and semantic search. Plus, Glasgow's a great city! We look forward to seeing you in March. Semantic astronomy promises to expand the scientific discovery potential of exponentially growing data collections by enabling natural language querying, content-based searching, rich metadata markup and retrieval, rapid integration of diverse data collections, and machine-assisted scientific discovery. Practical Semantic Astronomy 2009 is the second in a series of workshops first held at Caltech in February 2008. The workshop brings together experts from a broad range of disciplines using semantic technologies, alongside practitioners experimenting with these techniques to address current problems in astroinformatics. The Virtual Observatory is a loose planet-wide collaboration of astronomy computing projects, aiming to make available the high-volume and rich data of astronomy. Although astronomical data is generally well-described, it is very dispersed, so that there is a substantial data-discovery and integration problem, making it fertile ground for the sorts of semantic approaches applied with such success in other disciplines. In SemAst 2009, we will pair keynote speakers and astronomical use- cases, focusing broad expertise on challenging and exciting problems in astroinformatics. The keynotes speakers will be: * Danny Ayers, Talis, UK * Peter Fox, National Center for Atmospheric Research, USA * Antoine Isaac, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, The Netherlands * Amedeo Napoli, LORIA, France * Joel Sachs, University of Maryland, Baltimore County, USA * Robert Stevens, University of Manchester, UK Topics of Interest * Astronomy and solar ontologies * Knowledgebases * Metadata for astronomical databases * Semantic integration * Semantic queries and data mining * Semantic technologies --Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw) Content-type: text/x-vcard; name=kborne.vcf; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename=kborne.vcf Content-description: Card for Kirk D Borne begin:vcard n:Borne;Kirk fn:Kirk D Borne tel;fax:703-993-9300 tel;work:703-993-8402 url:http://classweb.gmu.edu/kborne/ org:George Mason University;Dept of Computational and Data Sciences adr:;;4400 University Drive, MS 6A2;Fairfax;VA;22030;USA version:2.1 email;internet:kborne@gmu.edu title:Associate Professor end:vcard --Boundary_(ID_n4GHKx5Api8Lr13oZ5SHOw)-- From dm-catalog-bounces@ivoa.net Mon May 25 15:07:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by fiction.hq.eso.org (ESO maildrop) with ESMTP id 930696242AC; Mon, 25 May 2009 15:07:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (pat.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.15]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n4PD7G7V023604; Mon, 25 May 2009 15:07:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629D4ECA3C9; Mon, 25 May 2009 15:07:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Original-To: dm-catalog@pat.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: dm-catalog@pat.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F652ECA3C8 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 15:07:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from clyde.hq.eso.org (clyde.hq.eso.org [134.171.75.133]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n4PD7DRX023601 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 15:07:13 +0200 (MEST) Received: from ma012838.local (pcap.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.208.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by clyde.hq.eso.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id n4PD7D9O017795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 15:07:13 +0200 Message-ID: <4A1A97F4.4040407@eso.org> Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 15:07:00 +0200 From: Andreas Wicenec Organization: ESO User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: ALMA catalogue data model Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060903000604090509000705" X-BeenThere: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Catalog Data Modelling \(DM WG\) - IVOA" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dm-catalog-bounces@ivoa.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060903000604090509000705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I would like to draw your attention to an implementation of a fairly complex catalogue data model for ALMA. The intention of this particular model is to cover the needs of ALMA in terms of dynamic source (calibration and science) and spectral line catalogues. Dynamic here means that newly extracted parameters will be added as observatories are executing new observations. The current implementation supports multiple observations from multiple observatories, with multiple names, coordinates, fluxes and velocities. That means that each observation can carry its own set of parameters (for coordinates even its own coordinate system). The whole model is implemented in Python using an object-relational mapper called SQLAlchemy. The logic allows to combine observational parameters into statistical parameters like mean fluxes or mean positions and velocities. If there is enough interest I may describe/discuss this in more detail during our meeting here in Strasbourg (but I'm here only until Wednesday afternoon). Cheers, Andreas --------------060903000604090509000705 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="awicenec.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="awicenec.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Andreas Wicenec n:Wicenec;Andreas org:ESO;DMO adr:;;Karl-Schwarzschild-Str. 2;Garching;;85748;Germany email;internet:awicenec@eso.org title:ALMA Archive Subsystem Lead tel;work:+49 89 32006470 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.eso.org version:2.1 end:vcard --------------060903000604090509000705-- From dm-catalog-bounces@ivoa.net Sat Jun 6 06:49:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: vomail@fiction.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by fiction.hq.eso.org (ESO maildrop) with ESMTP id 2C621624175; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 06:49:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (pat.hq.eso.org [134.171.42.15]) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n564mxTq011585; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 06:49:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: from pat.hq.eso.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFACEECA389; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 06:48:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Original-To: dm-catalog@pat.hq.eso.org Delivered-To: dm-catalog@pat.hq.eso.org Received: from mercury.hq.eso.org (mercury.hq.eso.org [134.171.7.20]) by pat.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA5FECA363 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 06:48:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from flux.hq.eso.org (flux.hq.eso.org [134.171.45.132] (may be forged)) by mercury.hq.eso.org (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id n564mwhM011580 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 06:48:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: from mail188.messagelabs.com (mail188.messagelabs.com [85.158.139.163]) by flux.hq.eso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF42B662C for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 06:44:47 +0200 (CEST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: rwagner@physics.ucsd.edu X-Msg-Ref: server-6.tower-188.messagelabs.com!1244263735!28851045!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.0.0; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [132.239.0.176] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests= Received: (qmail 10982 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2009 04:48:57 -0000 Received: from outbound.ucsd.edu (HELO iport-c1-out.ucsd.edu) (132.239.0.176) by server-6.tower-188.messagelabs.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 6 Jun 2009 04:48:57 -0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAJKSKUqE7wEx/2dsb2JhbADBE4Z2iFGECgU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.41,314,1241420400"; d="scan'208";a="59478271" X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Level: Received: from smtp.ucsd.edu ([132.239.1.49]) by iport-c1-out.ucsd.edu with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 05 Jun 2009 21:48:54 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.4] (adsl-71-137-3-83.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net [71.137.3.83]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ucsd.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n564mrfB029201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:48:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.ucsd.edu: Host adsl-71-137-3-83.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net [71.137.3.83] claimed to be [192.168.1.4] In-Reply-To: <4A1A97F4.4040407@eso.org> References: <4A1A97F4.4040407@eso.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) From: Rick Wagner Subject: Re: ALMA catalogue data model Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:48:52 -0700 To: Andreas Wicenec Cc: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-BeenThere: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Catalog Data Modelling \(DM WG\) - IVOA" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dm-catalog-bounces@ivoa.net Hi Andreas, Is there a web page somewhere describing this, or that provides access to the source code? Thanks, Rick On May 25, 2009, at 6:07 AM, Andreas Wicenec wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to draw your attention to an implementation of a > fairly complex catalogue data model for ALMA. The intention of this > particular model is to cover the needs of ALMA in terms of dynamic > source (calibration and science) and spectral line catalogues. > Dynamic here means that newly extracted parameters will be added as > observatories are executing new observations. The current > implementation supports multiple observations from multiple > observatories, with multiple names, coordinates, fluxes and > velocities. That means that each observation can carry its own set > of parameters (for coordinates even its own coordinate system). The > whole model is implemented in Python using an object-relational > mapper called SQLAlchemy. The logic allows to combine observational > parameters into statistical parameters like mean fluxes or mean > positions and velocities. If there is enough interest I may > describe/discuss this in more detail during our meeting here in > Strasbourg (but I'm here only until Wednesday afternoon). > > Cheers, > Andreas From ivoadoc@ivoa.net Mon Jun 20 12:55:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on ilium.cacr.caltech.edu X-Spam-CACR-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 autolearn=failed X-Spam-CACR-Level: X-Original-To: dm-catalog-at-ivoa@ilium.cacr.caltech.edu Delivered-To: dm-catalog-at-ivoa@ilium.cacr.caltech.edu Received: from ben-franklin.cacr.caltech.edu (ben-franklin.cacr.caltech.edu [131.215.148.6]) by mail-new.cacr.caltech.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82884100E5 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-new.cacr.caltech.edu (ilium.cacr.caltech.edu [131.215.145.11]) by ben-franklin.cacr.caltech.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p5KJtsWL005299 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:55:54 -0700 Received: from ben-franklin.cacr.caltech.edu (ben-franklin.cacr.caltech.edu [131.215.148.6]) by mail-new.cacr.caltech.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2D2100E5 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sarah-emerys-macbook.local (BeaverNet-163.caltech.edu [131.215.220.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by ben-franklin.cacr.caltech.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p5KJtrSQ005296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:55:53 -0700 Message-ID: <4DFFA5C9.2050006@ivoa.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:55:53 -0700 From: IVOA Document Coordinator User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dm-catalog@ivoa.net Subject: IVOA mailing list closure: dm-catalog Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: dm-catalog@ivoa.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "Catalog Data Modelling \(DM WG\) - IVOA" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 19:55:55 -0000 Dear Subscribers: After consultation with Gretchen & Jesus, this inactive IVOA mailing list will be disabled on Monday, June 27. Archives of the past messages will continue to be available at http://www.ivoa.net. Please write to ivoadoc@ivoa.net with any questions. Sincerely, Sarah Emery Bunn IVOA Document Coordinator